1 00:00:02,500 --> 00:00:11,320 A visit to the zoo has been a staple of family life for more than a century. 2 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,120 A lot of us will remember the experience of seeing 3 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,760 our first wild animal at the zoo as a child. 4 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:26,440 But is it time that zoos took a long, hard look at what they do? 5 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:33,320 Zoos, if they stay as they are, inevitably will become extinct. 6 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,000 The public will just stop going to them. 7 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,120 I'm Liz Bonnin. I've studied and worked in zoos, 8 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:45,400 and I've observed just how intelligent animals can be. 9 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:49,760 Chase and tickle, he wants to chase and tickle with you now. 10 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:53,920 I want to chase and tickle with you too! 11 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,280 But the more science is revealing about animals, 12 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,240 the more difficult questions are being raised 13 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:05,880 about why and how animals are kept in zoos. 14 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:07,880 Why are zoos still keeping elephants 15 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:13,200 now that we know captivity can halve their life expectancy? 16 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,080 To us it just became more and more clear that there was no... 17 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,480 there was no way to really make this work. 18 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:20,760 We want to be able to sleep at night. 19 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:25,600 Did captivity drive one of SeaWorld's orcas to kill his trainer? 20 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:30,080 There is no evidence whatsoever that there is any mental 21 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,800 aberration that is a result of living in a zoological park. 22 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,320 Why do so many zoo animals exhibit behaviours 23 00:01:38,320 --> 00:01:41,160 that are hardly seen in the wild? 24 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,800 It does indicate that something is not right. 25 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,520 Is the battle to save endangered animals 26 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:49,480 one that zoos can simply never win? 27 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:56,040 We feel like janitors of the human culture. 28 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,320 We're trying to clean this mess up. 29 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,360 I want to ultimately find out if zoos need to change, 30 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,600 to serve animals and humans better. 31 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,640 Or if they should be consigned to history. 32 00:02:20,640 --> 00:02:24,760 A day out at the zoo, in Copenhagen. 33 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:30,200 In 2014, the zoo offered families an educational experience that 34 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,080 some might find disturbing. 35 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:40,560 A two-year-old giraffe called Marius was culled, 36 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:46,240 then dissected in front of them and fed to the lions. 37 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,720 What happened here lifted the lid on a practice 38 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:51,800 few other zoos embrace so publicly. 39 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,400 Today I'm here to see it happen again. 40 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,720 Copenhagen Zoo has culled another animal. 41 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,000 This time it's a sable antelope. 42 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,960 How was she culled? What method did you use? 43 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,680 She was shot with a rifle and you can see, 44 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:17,840 if you want to, that she was shot right in the brain here. 45 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:23,720 And obviously, this is not a very enjoyable part of our job, 46 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,040 but the key here is to do it so the animals have no idea what's coming 47 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,920 and it has to be swift and efficient. 48 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:37,720 The culling of Marius triggered a global storm of protest. 49 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:42,480 In the firing line was Bengt Holst, director of research at the zoo. 50 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,680 Bengt, were you surprised by the reaction, 51 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:49,400 by the backlash that you got because of the culling of Marius? 52 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,720 Yes, very much indeed, and that's because we have done this, 53 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,080 we have used this concept for more than 30 years here in the zoo, 54 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,040 and we have done it with lions and with bears 55 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,160 and leopards and antelopes and a lot of different animals, 56 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,640 not with giraffes until now. 57 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:09,320 But it was really strange because we have never had this reaction before. 58 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,120 It may seem cruel, 59 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:15,520 but culling has come about with the modernisation of zoos. 60 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:19,880 In the 19th century, when zoos began, 61 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,000 most of the animals were taken from the wild. 62 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:29,120 Zoos would order animals for spring time, you know, because there was 63 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:33,040 a new season and you'd bring them in and if they survived the summer, 64 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:37,680 that was great, but if not, you'd just order some more next year. 65 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,000 Since the 1980s, zoos have aimed to develop a more positive 66 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,520 relationship with the natural world. 67 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,880 Today it's much more conservation-minded. 68 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,800 It's ethically wrong to take all animals in from the wild, so we 69 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,600 strive at being self-sustaining with as many animals as ever possible. 70 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,720 Now, more than 90% of the animals in zoos are born in captivity. 71 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:08,200 And around 90% of all species kept are not endangered in the wild. 72 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:12,080 Animals are carefully paired across zoos around the world 73 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,680 to avoid in-breeding and to ensure genetic diversity. 74 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,880 But there is a consequence. 75 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,040 If you want to do serious breeding with animals, 76 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,600 where you go for a healthy population far into the future, 77 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:30,480 then you cannot avoid having, at some stage, if they breed well, a surplus. 78 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,880 That's because zoos can't breed just the animals 79 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:37,280 they need to maintain a sustainable population. 80 00:05:37,280 --> 00:05:40,480 You cannot go into a shop and buy three males and four females, 81 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,640 for example, if that's what you need for your population. 82 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:45,320 You have to let them breed 83 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:49,600 and you cannot predict what is the sex ratio. 84 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,080 At Copenhagen, surplus animals are also produced 85 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:58,160 because the zoo takes a particular approach to animal welfare. 86 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:02,000 This particular animal is considered surplus to the programme, 87 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,760 in the sense that her genes are already represented 88 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:09,560 fairly well through numerous of her siblings. 89 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:13,080 The parents of this antelope, just like Marius's parents, 90 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:18,240 were not paired in the international breeding programme. 91 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,720 Instead, Copenhagen decided to allow them 92 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:27,360 to breed, rather than use methods to stop them, as other zoos do. 93 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,280 Why cull, as opposed to using contraceptives? 94 00:06:30,280 --> 00:06:31,920 Because by using contraceptives, 95 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,280 you take away the breeding behaviour from the animals. 96 00:06:35,280 --> 00:06:37,600 I think it's very important that we give the animals 97 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,200 an opportunity to perform as much natural behaviour as ever possible. 98 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:45,120 And breeding behaviour is a big part of that natural behaviour. 99 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,760 If you take away that part, you have a welfare problem. 100 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:49,280 You reduce their welfare. 101 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:52,840 Before considering culling, 102 00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:57,120 zoos look at moving surplus animals to other zoos. 103 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:01,560 But space is limited, and priority is given to housing animals 104 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,240 that are valuable to the breeding programmes. 105 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,640 This sort of proves that there are no surplus animals. 106 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:10,480 Everything has a role to play. 107 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,600 As controversial as Copenhagen's policy is, 108 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,440 perhaps what's most surprising is how openly it's carried out here. 109 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:25,000 It's not known how many other zoos take the same approach to breeding, 110 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:30,600 but it's estimated that between 3,000-5,000 healthy animals 111 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,480 are culled by European zoos every year. 112 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,320 I would say in general, it is actually pretty common, 113 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:42,200 but many zoos are not so open about it. 114 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,920 Some are doing it in disguise. 115 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,480 When Marius the giraffe hit the headlines, 116 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,800 Copenhagen says it was criticised by other zoos. 117 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,600 We got attacks from other zoos, also in Europe. 118 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:58,440 Zoos that practise culling, or...? 119 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,560 Yes, some zoos that practise culling. 120 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,720 Does this mean that the zoos that were culling, 121 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,720 but had attacked you, were saying you shouldn't have made it public, 122 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,400 you shouldn't have engaged in the conversation? 123 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,840 Some even said that you should have done it without... 124 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:16,080 Keep it behind the scenes and then don't mention it at all. 125 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,360 But I think it's not the way forward. 126 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,680 The journey zoos are on from the less-enlightened 127 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,400 days of the past has reached a critical point. 128 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,280 The ever-growing human population means the wild has shrunk, 129 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,880 with species disappearing faster than ever. 130 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,240 And science has moved on in leaps and bounds 131 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,360 in its understanding of animals. 132 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,480 But are zoos adapting with the times? 133 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:55,440 If you peel it all back, 134 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,720 and you look at, say, London Zoo in 1828 - 135 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:03,440 and all the other zoos throughout the 19th century - 136 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,000 they all had big animals, 137 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:11,080 showy animals, colourful animals, mainly from Africa or from Asia. 138 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,960 The typical zoo today has got exactly the same collections. 139 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,640 They have not moved on from that. 140 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,280 Zoos tell us that the welfare of their animals 141 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,160 is at the heart of what they do. 142 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,160 But is it? 143 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,000 Zoos have certainly published dozens of scientific papers 144 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:28,640 about their animals. 145 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,280 But all that you can find, 146 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,120 all these studies carried out by various zoos around the world, 147 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:38,760 it's not always easy to talk to zoos about some of this research. 148 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,840 So it's hard to judge whether they're really keeping up 149 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:49,120 with the latest scientific insights into animal needs. 150 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,680 At least, in most cases. 151 00:09:52,680 --> 00:09:56,800 There is one zoo that's been quite keen to talk to us about their work 152 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,520 and the stickier issues surrounding the welfare of captive animals. 153 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:05,840 ARCHIVE: 'A day at the zoo. 154 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:11,080 'The Detroit Zoological Park ranks with the finest in the world.' 155 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,680 Opened in 1928, Detroit Zoo kept the same animals 156 00:10:14,680 --> 00:10:18,600 most other zoos did - including elephants, a star attraction. 157 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,840 I've heard people say, "Oh, they haven't got an elephant in that zoo, 158 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:25,880 "can't be any good." 159 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,200 And if your zoo isn't popular 160 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,760 because it doesn't have the animals that the public wants to see, 161 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:34,640 they'll probably have to close the doors. 162 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:37,880 So we have to educate the public. 163 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,760 I'm visiting the zoo to find out about a novel approach to 164 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:51,400 animal welfare, a vision that's raising a question for all zoos. 165 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,840 This place is taking a long, hard look at the scientific evidence 166 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,240 to determine what animals it should keep and what it shouldn't. 167 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:08,200 The zoo's director, Ron Kagan, wants to show me why, when it came 168 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,000 to elephants, he broke with 150 years of zoological tradition. 169 00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:21,360 This used to be the indoor enclosure for Detroit's two Asian elephants. 170 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,160 Now, notice, there is more room for people... 171 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,480 I was going to say! ..than there is for elephants. 172 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,800 I didn't want to be smart about it, but how come 173 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,320 there's more room for the people? Because zoos, in the beginning, 174 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,000 were thinking a little bit more 175 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,640 about people than they were about animals. 176 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:40,400 When they lived here, both elephants developed arthritis 177 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,960 and chronic foot problems. 178 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,680 Many captive elephants have major problems with their feet 179 00:11:46,680 --> 00:11:48,400 because they're not walking enough 180 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,280 and they're not walking on the right material. 181 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,480 The Michigan climate exacerbated the problem of not giving 182 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,280 the elephants enough space. 183 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,800 When we had particularly long, harsh winters, 184 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:05,640 and the elephants had to stay indoors for long periods of time, 185 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,960 we knew that wasn't good for them. To us, it just became more 186 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,920 and more clear that there was no way to really make this work. 187 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,200 We want to be able to sleep at night. 188 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:20,680 In 2004, Detroit announced it was moving its elephants to a sanctuary. 189 00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:23,920 There were people that said, oh, your attendance is going to drop 190 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,000 and this is going to hurt revenue and it's going to... 191 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,480 We said, you know, we don't think that's right. 192 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:33,200 But we're just not prepared to knowingly keep animals 193 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,600 that we don't think are doing well. 194 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,440 At the time, the zoo had just under a million visitors a year. 195 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,600 Now, it gets almost one and a half million. 196 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:47,240 The reaction from the American Association of Zoos and Aquariums 197 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,880 The reaction from the American Association of Zoos and Aquariums 198 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:54,400 who wanted the elephants moved to another zoo was less positive. 199 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,880 I lost my AAZA professional membership. 200 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,480 But what was their explanation for that? 201 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:06,400 The explanation was that I had discussed this publicly. 202 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,640 I'm struggling with that. Well... Why are they so guarded? 203 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,680 Because, as is often the case in a profession, 204 00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:19,840 people don't like dealing with complex ethical issues 205 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:21,720 in a public forum. 206 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,240 And that was very unsettling for a lot of people in the zoo world. 207 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,240 But Ron was determined to push on with a radical 208 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,040 rethink of what a zoo should be. 209 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:39,080 Instead of going, well, a good zoo must have elephants 210 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:40,720 and rhinos and tigers and lions, 211 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,960 you go, a good zoo must have animals that it knows can thrive 212 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,520 and it should not have animals that can't thrive. 213 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,680 Detroit Zoo could see their own elephants were not thriving. 214 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,680 But assessing the welfare of captive elephants around the globe 215 00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:01,760 requires a more systematic approach. 216 00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:06,480 And that's where science comes in. 217 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,400 Zoos have what are called stud books for most of the animals 218 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:17,920 they keep - records of their genealogical background 219 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:22,280 as well as births, deaths, transfers and imports of animals. 220 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,400 No-one really knew how well 221 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:28,440 the European zoo population of elephants were doing 222 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,680 until scientists studied these records. 223 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:32,480 And what they found was disturbing. 224 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:36,600 The most significant revelation 225 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,600 was how long the elephants in European zoos were living. 226 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,760 It turned out captive-born female Asian elephants - 227 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,240 the majority of the zoo population - were living 19 years on average. 228 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,720 Scientists wanted to benchmark this against the wild. 229 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,320 We looked to the nearest thing, which was timber camps in Burma. 230 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,200 And they've got a very good, equivalent stud book 231 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:03,760 for their population. 232 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:05,360 And we're by no means saying that 233 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:07,640 that is an ideal environment for elephants. 234 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:09,280 It's hard, they get worked hard. 235 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,480 But even with all that, we find that 236 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:13,960 they were living till they were about 40. 237 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,800 So at least double what we were seeing in zoos. 238 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:23,760 It really raised a massive red flag that something is not right 239 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:25,720 in the way that zoos are keeping elephants. 240 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:30,040 The research was published and a backlash began. 241 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:36,760 From zoos, it was on the whole quite negative and hostile. 242 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,560 And there was a reaction to discrediting us, 243 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,960 rather than looking at their practices 244 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:45,600 and the welfare of their elephants 245 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,640 so that something could be done about it. 246 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,960 So why are zoos still keeping elephants? 247 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,880 It's breakfast time at Twycross Zoo in Warwickshire. 248 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,600 Three of these female Asian elephants were brought 249 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,560 here from timber camps in the 1980s. 250 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,000 The latest addition to the herd is two years old. 251 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:17,160 The zoo's director, Sharon Redrobe, is happy to discuss 252 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,120 what the science is revealing about elephants in captivity. 253 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,760 The data is showing that elephants are dying at a much earlier age 254 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,960 in captivity in zoos. So how does one react to that as a zoo director? 255 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:35,800 It's clearly not good enough in zoos at the moment. 256 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,440 The challenge with elephants is that they live, 257 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,080 they should live, a very long time. 258 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,520 So any changes we make now won't be seen for 30, 40 years. 259 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:47,480 But we do know that we used to feed them a lot of cake, 260 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,040 for goodness' sake, and they used to get really bad teeth, 261 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:54,280 then they used to get very aggressive and people would shoot them. 262 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,200 This zoo allows the elephants to make choices, 263 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:02,040 rather than directly handling them, as many zoo keepers still do. 264 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,880 According to the science, two risk factors limit 265 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:09,080 the life spans of elephants in captivity - stress and obesity. 266 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,560 What will be really interesting is to see things like, 267 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,600 baby Escher when she grows up, will she have arthritis? 268 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,080 I really hope not, because we've changed the flooring, 269 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:22,920 we've changed their diets. So now we don't have fat elephants. 270 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:27,280 By establishing how elephants are faring in captivity with empirical 271 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:32,120 evidence, scientists have helped to raise the ambition of some zoos. 272 00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:36,760 I think this generation of elephants have suffered, 273 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:40,200 and you can see that in the scientific data. We can see it. 274 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,440 It's a shame, shame on us. 275 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,040 But the next thing is what we're going to do about it. 276 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,280 And the next generation needs to be protected, 277 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:49,120 and we learn from the past. 278 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,280 The Government has told British zoos they must improve the welfare 279 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,520 of their elephants by 2021, or risk having to phase them out. 280 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:09,520 I think the jury's still out in terms of whether enough 281 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,080 will be done, because I think the changes needed are probably so big. 282 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,160 I'm very sceptical as to whether 283 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,200 that will happen in this time period. 284 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,560 Science is giving zoos a new tool to help assess 285 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:33,800 the needs of their animals. 286 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:35,800 A method of determining why animals 287 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,480 often behave differently in zoos than in the wild. 288 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,640 Something that was poorly understood by those 289 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:45,200 who first kept animals, like this. 290 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,280 Now, when this was built in the 1920s, 291 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:56,160 it was a really revolutionary kind of big space. 292 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,800 Which is shocking when you think about it, 293 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:00,400 but it was a long time ago. 294 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,440 And in those days, the animals were simply behind bars. 295 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,360 This far from adequate space was home to the zoo's polar bears. 296 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,800 When I've seen some of the early footage, 297 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,840 I've seen as many as a dozen polar bears. 298 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:17,960 Now, the interesting thing to remember - 299 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,160 and sometimes people don't know this when they go to zoos - 300 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,800 is that obviously there's some animals that are very social, like elephants. 301 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:26,800 Primates, most primates. 302 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,880 Polar bears are not, so you normally would never see 303 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:34,760 more than two together, except if it's a mother and cubs. 304 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,800 So this must have been a very tricky thing to manage back then. 305 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,960 This overcrowded environment may well have affected the way 306 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:44,320 the polar bears behaved. 307 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,320 I'm sure there was a lot of stereotypy, 308 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,200 but nobody was monitoring that or measuring that in the old days. 309 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,680 This is stereotypic behaviour, 310 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,400 abnormal and repetitive with no obvious purpose. 311 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,000 Animals still are developing stereotypic behaviour, 312 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,320 so it's not just a bygone era. 313 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,600 It's a modern phenomenon that is still an issue. 314 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,680 And I do think it does indicate that something's not right with 315 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,080 the environment, and those animals aren't getting what they need. 316 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:34,240 Stereotypic behaviour is hardly ever seen in the wild, 317 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,920 but it's often seen in zoos. 318 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,400 A 2004 Oxford University study 319 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,600 reported that around 80% of carnivores 320 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,080 performed stereotypic behaviour in captivity. 321 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,960 I'm on my way to meet one of the scientists who gathered data 322 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,000 on abnormal behaviour in captive animals 323 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,640 to find out what the root causes might be. 324 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,080 What she found fundamentally challenged 325 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,120 the way zoos keep and manage animals. 326 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:16,120 This is the Belle Isle Zoo in Detroit, which opened in 1895. 327 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:23,400 It once housed one of the species most prone to stereotypic behaviour, 328 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,400 polar bears. 329 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,720 Ever since she studied zoology, 330 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,560 Professor Georgia Mason has been fascinated by stereotypic behaviour. 331 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,440 I was learning all about how animal behaviour has evolved 332 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,080 and how evolution has shaped animals to be really efficient. 333 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,080 And then, in captivity, you'd see all this extravagant, 334 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,360 wasteful pacing and head bobbing. 335 00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:52,800 These animals should just be relaxing. This is the life of Riley. 336 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:54,840 They've got everything they need. 337 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:59,160 Professor Mason investigated why animals display this behaviour, 338 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,120 which many scientists believe is linked to stress 339 00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:05,280 and could reflect psychological damage. 340 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,320 It made me think, these things aren't arbitrary. 341 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,160 They're obviously reflecting something about the animal's 342 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,200 natural biology, so let's see if we can tell what that is. 343 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,120 Professor Mason compared how much time carnivores in zoos spent 344 00:22:20,120 --> 00:22:25,680 pacing with how far they range over time in the wild. 345 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,080 There was a striking correlation. 346 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,680 We found that species that naturally have large home ranges 347 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,720 and species that travel a relatively long way each day, 348 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,840 they're the ones most at risk of this behaviour in captivity. 349 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,440 The species most at risk was the polar bear, 350 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,320 which has the largest home range of all land mammals - 351 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,200 sometimes over 250,000 square kilometres. 352 00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:56,680 When Professor Mason came to publish her paper, 353 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,280 she challenged zoos to fundamentally improve 354 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:04,160 the way they keep wide-ranging carnivores or phase them out. 355 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,600 That really put the cat amongst the pigeons. 356 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,440 Why do you think it was so incendiary? 357 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,720 I actually don't know! Because there's lots of conversations 358 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,360 within the zoo community about, strategically, 359 00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:18,200 which species should they prioritise? 360 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:19,840 Should it be the endangered ones, 361 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,040 should it be the ones it's easiest to keep well? 362 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,560 Should it be the ones that most inspire the public? 363 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,680 I mean, it's a fascinating debate. It is. 364 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,040 And as part of that conversation, I would think you should be 365 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,640 allowed to say, let's not keep these. 366 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,640 Not because it's impossible to keep them well, 367 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,160 but because it requires knowledge that we don't have yet, 368 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,720 or resources that could be better spent on something else. 369 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,640 Among the theme parks of Orlando in Florida, 370 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,520 one zoological institution is struggling to persuade the public 371 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:54,360 that it's meeting the needs of some of the world's largest animals. 372 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,640 TV NEWS: 'This is SeaWorld. 373 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,240 'The atmosphere is part zoo, part circus.' 374 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:10,000 SeaWorld has displayed killer whales since 1964, 375 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:15,080 but it's now mired in controversy after a documentary called Blackfish 376 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:20,080 alleged that captivity severely compromises their welfare. 377 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,400 The film Blackfish examined the events leading up 378 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,840 to the fatal attack on a trainer by a male orca, 379 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,160 here at SeaWorld Orlando. 380 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,440 Like many people, I was moved by what I saw. 381 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,680 The footage and the accounts from ex-trainers were compelling, 382 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,680 and SeaWorld chose not to take part in the film. 383 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,400 I went as far as calling for it to be shut down on Twitter. 384 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,640 Now, SeaWorld have decided to talk to me today, 385 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,000 and I really want to hear their side of the story. 386 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,520 Can science cut through the heated debate 387 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,600 about the welfare of SeaWorld's orcas? 388 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,280 Dr Chris Dold is SeaWorld's head vet. 389 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:11,120 He's going to show me the orca that killed his trainer. 390 00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:13,760 Oh, I think I can see... 391 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,840 Look at that! So this is Tilikum? So this is Tilikum, right here. 392 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,200 How would you describe Tilikum? 393 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:28,400 The most impressive animal in a zoological park, anywhere. 394 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:33,040 During a performance in 2010, Tilikum pulled his trainer, 395 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:34,720 Dawn Brancheau, into the pool. 396 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,160 PHONE CALL: 397 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,280 Within minutes, she had drowned. 398 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:56,040 Why do you think Tilikum attacked and killed Dawn? 399 00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:01,120 It's a question that's been asked, and in the question right there, 400 00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:03,760 it's a mischaracterisation of what happened. 401 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,800 This was not an attack, this was a terrible accident. 402 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,920 And an accident that impacted all of us deeply. 403 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,680 What happened? If it wasn't an attack, what exactly happened? 404 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,680 An accident, truly. 405 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,120 One of the things that we work with our whales on 406 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:21,200 is how humans and whales safely interact, right? 407 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:25,280 Tilikum is different from the rest of our group of whales in that those 408 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,520 sorts of normal, safe working behaviours were not taught to him. 409 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,720 Did the constraints of captivity contribute 410 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,840 to Tilikum's behaviour that day? 411 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,400 A 2012 study tracked a wild orca that travelled 412 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:49,440 almost 9,400 kilometres in 42 days, nonstop. 413 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,480 How far can they travel in any one day? 414 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,320 We'd see them pass our field camp 415 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,360 and then we'd find out, 24 hours later, 416 00:26:57,360 --> 00:26:59,200 that they were 100 miles away. 417 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,080 They've gone through millennia of evolution. 418 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,080 Natural selection is what it is. 419 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,920 These animals have to move those distances to stay healthy. 420 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,920 Three trainers have been killed by captive orcas. 421 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,440 Tilikum has been involved in the deaths of two. 422 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,560 One before SeaWorld owned him, 423 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,480 as well as the death of a man who entered his pool in Orlando. 424 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,680 According to SeaWorld's records, 425 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:30,040 their orcas have injured trainers 12 times between 1988 and 2009. 426 00:27:32,120 --> 00:27:34,760 This is an animal that ranges 100 miles a day, 427 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:39,000 that travels not only to hunt, that communicates vast distances 428 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,840 and is now in captivity. 429 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,320 Could this somehow contribute to a psychosis that leads to 430 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,640 an animal killing not one, but two, but three individuals? 431 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,240 The key thing is that Tilikum's behaviour - 432 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:56,840 and there is no evidence whatsoever that there is any mental aberration 433 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,560 that is a result of living in a zoological park or otherwise. 434 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,600 How do we know, when we don't actually have the research to show that? 435 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,040 Is it conjecture, is it opinions? 436 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,600 I think it's experiential evidence. 437 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,720 But is experiential good enough? 438 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,120 Does any of this not have to rely 439 00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:16,920 on strong, empirical, scientific data? 440 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,240 I think, over time, deep, empirical evidence will come forward. 441 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,520 Since Dawn Brancheau's death, 442 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:28,320 action by a federal safety agency has stopped SeaWorld's trainers 443 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,000 from being in the water during orca shows. 444 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,280 The question of whether killer whales might suffer 445 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:42,080 psychological problems in captivity remains unanswered. 446 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:48,080 Scientists have investigated the cognitive capacities of dolphins, 447 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,080 members of the cetacean family that includes orcas. 448 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,000 So this is one of the dolphins in front of the mirror, 449 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:00,160 and you can see he's doing something called contingency checking. 450 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,720 He's making strange motions with his head to see 451 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:04,880 if the image in the mirror is doing the same thing, 452 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,080 and once he figures out that that's him in the mirror, 453 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,680 then he goes on to use the mirror 454 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,440 to explore himself in a lot of different ways. 455 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,680 So here's one example of that. 456 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,600 What do I look like upside down? 457 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,280 It's a beautiful thing to watch. 458 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,200 And here's another dolphin 459 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:26,120 fooled into believing that he has been given a mark 460 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,920 under his pectoral fin and he's actually moving in a way in front 461 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,200 of the reflective surface to see if there is an actual mark there. 462 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,800 It's extraordinary behaviour, it's compelling behaviour. 463 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:44,360 What this research tells us is that these beings have a sense of self. 464 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:49,320 They have a sense of who they are, what they look like 465 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,280 and what their circumstances are. 466 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,520 So they know it was them yesterday, it's them today in the mirror, 467 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,560 and it will be them tomorrow. 468 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,600 But science has yet to determine 469 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,040 whether animals with complex cognitive capabilities 470 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,720 suffer more, or in fact can adapt well, in captivity. 471 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,720 SeaWorld have their own view. 472 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,080 With the relative intelligence of cetaceans, 473 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,880 it's actually, I think, what has allowed them to thrive so well 474 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,320 in zoological settings. 475 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,440 And that's because, unlike some species of animals that just want 476 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,800 to be by themselves and want nothing to do with humans, 477 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,000 cetaceans clearly work readily with us. 478 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,280 And that's why we're able to provide such remarkable care for them. 479 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:42,000 The welfare of SeaWorld's orcas is under scrutiny like never before. 480 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,360 The California Coastal Commission approved SeaWorld's 481 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,320 multi-million-dollar plan to expand its pools in San Diego. 482 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,320 But only if it stops breeding orcas there. 483 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,000 SeaWorld is challenging the ruling. 484 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,840 Do you envisage a time in the future where, with scientific evidence, 485 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,560 you will choose not to keep killer whales in captivity any more? 486 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,400 And keep other animals that have been shown to thrive 487 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,720 through hard, empirical data? 488 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:16,960 No. I don't imagine that future, because we know our killer whales 489 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,400 are thriving in the habitats where we keep them now. 490 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,080 SeaWorld has published a paper showing their orcas 491 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,600 live as long as those in the wild. 492 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,560 Independent scientists are working on rebuttals, 493 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,200 due to concerns about the methodology they used. 494 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,080 We've sort of reached the point where we just conclude as a 495 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:42,160 society that there are no solid data that they can thrive in captivity. 496 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,600 It's all hand-waving from SeaWorld. 497 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,640 And so, we need to conclude that this isn't appropriate any more. 498 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:52,240 This is a species that isn't suitable for a zoo life. 499 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,200 Detroit Zoo believes it's found a way to enable 500 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,080 its polar bears to thrive, but it's come at a hefty price. 501 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,400 They call it the Arctic Ring of Life - now home 502 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,040 to just two polar bears, a male and a female. 503 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,800 At over 1.6 acres, 504 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:36,400 this enclosure is more than eight times the size of the old one. 505 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,200 But that's not its only key feature. 506 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,320 We believe the bears have to have some choices. Yeah. 507 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,320 The habitat was designed... There are two separate habitats, 508 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,760 so they have opportunities to choose to be with another bear 509 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:49,800 or without another bear. 510 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,480 Choice is an important part of a polar bear's natural behaviour 511 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,120 as it moves around in the wild. 512 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,040 They're making lots of decisions. 513 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,920 They're choosing where to be based on prey abundance, 514 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:04,640 mate availability, that kind of thing. 515 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,880 So it could be that really the solution for these animals in zoos 516 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,800 is to allow them to make more decisions, 517 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,760 give them more control, give them more day to day variability. 518 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,400 So rather than thinking, oh, no, we have to give them giant enclosures, 519 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,640 the solutions could be more imaginative. 520 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:21,680 You see how the hill goes up? Yeah. 521 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,920 For bears, one of their most important senses to them 522 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:26,640 is their sense of smell. 523 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,640 And so there's nothing blocking the wind 524 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,480 when they go to the top of the exhibit. 525 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:37,080 According to a 2013 study by three American zoos, 526 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,440 polar bears with stimulating environments and a view out of 527 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,240 the enclosure show significantly less stereotypic behaviour. 528 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,720 Detroit Zoo say they see less stereotypic behaviour 529 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,640 with their bears here than in their old enclosure. 530 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,040 This hasn't been quantified yet, but it is encouraging, 531 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,600 considering animals like these are not suitable 532 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,080 for release back into the wild. 533 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,440 It's highly unlikely they could survive. 534 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:09,960 So what can we say about the lives of these polar bears now? 535 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,680 I would say, I believe she has a pretty good life. 536 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:18,520 That is so subjective. That's just me. 537 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,640 I've known her since she was born and I could be totally wrong. 538 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,480 But I believe she has the things that are meaningful. 539 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:33,200 This enclosure cost around $16 million to design and build. 540 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,600 At that kind of price, trying to meet the welfare 541 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:40,600 needs of animals like polar bears forces zoos to make hard choices. 542 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,960 If you want quality, you have to give up on quantity. 543 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:46,560 You can't do every animal. 544 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,960 You can't have a postage stamp collection 545 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,440 and expect to be able to have all the animals thrive. 546 00:34:53,240 --> 00:34:57,560 The emphasis on animals thriving in captivity, not just surviving, 547 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,800 may sound obvious, but it could revolutionise the zoo world. 548 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,800 If zoos really did put welfare at the very top, 549 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,880 how would zoos be different? 550 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:18,080 Well, you'd have fewer animals in each zoo. 551 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:22,640 You'd have fewer species in each zoo. 552 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:28,000 You'd have species in a climate that is appropriate. 553 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,440 And there's no question in my mind, that's where things are going. 554 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,760 I think you'll see fewer zoos with polar bears, 555 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,760 fewer zoos with elephants, fewer zoos with gorillas. 556 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,160 And different ones will have different expertise. 557 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,080 And you know, that means that you might have to travel further 558 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,920 if you want to go see a particular type of animal. 559 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,960 But there's no reason that every city should have a zoo that 560 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:54,240 each one has zebras, giraffes, elephants, rhinos, etc. 561 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,200 Around zoos, the world is changing. 562 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,320 We're living through an unprecedented mass extinction crisis. 563 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,240 The rapid rise of the human population has dramatically 564 00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:14,360 reshaped the natural environment, 565 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,000 destroying habitats at an alarming rate. 566 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,880 Dr Jane Goodall has seen how the wild has shrunk 567 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:26,920 since she first studied chimpanzees in Tanzania in 1960. 568 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,520 And, for her, it makes a compelling case for zoos. 569 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,240 If the world is beautiful, 570 00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:36,080 and like it was when I went first to Africa, 571 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,040 that's where all chimps should be. 572 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:40,200 But it's not. 573 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,880 I've seen so many places where there's logging coming closer, 574 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,040 chimpanzees under threat. 575 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,800 And, quite honestly, when you go to a really good zoo 576 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,800 which has a big outside enclosure, then you think, well, 577 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:02,360 actually, if I was a chimp, I'd probably rather be here 578 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,240 than out in all these dangerous situations in the wild. 579 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,840 Because of human impacts, species are disappearing at a rate 580 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:15,080 100 times faster than would be expected. 581 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,960 Zoos are saying that saving animals is their fundamental role. 582 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:23,440 At about the same time that television and film 583 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,480 were taking over from the simple task that zoos had 584 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,320 of showing you what a polar bear looks like, 585 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,880 zoos then changed their direction and said, 586 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,600 we are conservation centres. 587 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:37,800 This is our primary purpose, is conservation. 588 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,680 If we weren't breeding and maintaining animals, 589 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,520 then some of these animals would be 590 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:44,960 going rapidly extinct in the wild, 591 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,000 and we wouldn't have this ark principle, 592 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,040 this repository of animals, to ever put them back. 593 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:52,600 This is the role now of zoos. 594 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,080 It's changed radically since the '50s and the '60s, 595 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,520 of just show and tell wild animals. 596 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,560 We are now part of the solution. 597 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:05,280 I don't think this is a sustainable claim for zoos to say that 598 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,680 they're conservation centres. 599 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:11,360 It's a very thin, slender little column that they've 600 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,160 built for themselves to stand on. 601 00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:21,840 When it comes to breeding endangered species, 602 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,560 zoos have gained vast amounts of expertise and knowledge, 603 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,320 thanks to years of dedication. 604 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,760 Take the effort to save the California condor, 605 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,920 one of the world's most endangered birds. 606 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,600 I'm keen to help out, but Mike Clark from LA Zoo has got other ideas. 607 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,040 You don't want me to hold the eggs for you? 608 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,280 You're not on the permit, the federal permit to touch the eggs. 609 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,120 You have to have a federal permit to handle them? Oh, yeah. 610 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,200 In the 1980s, there were just 22 California condors 611 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,880 left in the wild. 612 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,480 The last of the species were brought into a zoo, 613 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,560 and the captive breeding programme began. 614 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,800 So this would be egg LA-10-15. 615 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,440 Each egg is closely monitored. 616 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,320 There you go. Oh, look at that, that's fantastic. Look at that. 617 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,720 As the chicks are reared, contact with zoo keepers is limited. 618 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:32,520 This is a condor hand puppet, something we make right here. 619 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:36,040 The hand-reared chicks are fed by puppets. 620 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,280 Some birds showed no fear of humans when they were released, 621 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,720 so the keepers had to adapt. 622 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,640 So what would this puppet do, other than just drop the food? 623 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,000 The chicks can get kind of rambunctious and become 624 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,720 abusive towards the puppet, because there's no consequences. 625 00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:54,360 And so the puppet would actually have to move them away, 626 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,760 like, you're not going to do that, that's not the way to behave. 627 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:00,200 Over three decades, 628 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,280 zoos have perfected the method of breeding condors. 629 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,960 But successfully reintroducing them into the wild is a much 630 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:10,960 greater challenge. 631 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:17,040 This is Hopper Mountain, north of Los Angeles, one of the sites 632 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,520 where captive-born condors are released. 633 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,960 I'm with Estelle Sandhaus, a scientist from Santa Barbara Zoo. 634 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:37,200 'On the other side of this canyon is a historic nesting site, 635 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:38,400 'if only I could see it!' 636 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,720 Gosh, it's really thrilling to see it. 637 00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:49,000 Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. 638 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,240 God, she's gorgeous, isn't she? 639 00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:53,160 Yeah, she absolutely is. 640 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:54,160 It's amazing. 641 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:05,800 These mountains have been turned into a zoo of sorts. 642 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,560 The birds are constantly monitored because, without 643 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,840 intensive management, the population would once again collapse. 644 00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,320 The reason can be found at LA Zoo. 645 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,800 'This is 360, a sick condor brought in from the wild.' 646 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:27,360 He's a beaut. 647 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,680 'What happened to him reveals just how much human behaviour is 648 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,520 'undermining this reintroduction programme.' 649 00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,360 This is a ventral view of the whole body 650 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:44,000 and if you look carefully, you can see a high density object, 651 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:48,760 that's metal, and that is the piece of lead that was poisoning him. 652 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,760 Across the region, hunters often use lead ammunition, 653 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,880 which shatters inside the animals they hunt. 654 00:41:55,880 --> 00:42:01,080 As scavengers, condors feed on the carcases and can easily be poisoned. 655 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:07,160 These are additional radiographs of 360 from June of 2010, 656 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:12,080 June of 2012 and then 2015, like you see here. 657 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,680 So, actually he's been in three times for lead poisoning. 658 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:17,320 How old is he? 659 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,760 Ten. Ten years old and he's been in three times. Yeah. 660 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,440 '360 was lucky. 661 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,360 'Vets removed this latest particle, 662 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,520 'but 59 others have died from lead poisoning 663 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,800 'since the reintroduction programme began.' 664 00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:33,520 Look at that wing span. 665 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:38,840 I mean, there's no question when you see such a spectacular species, 666 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:40,880 of course it should be protected. 667 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:42,960 Of course we can't let it go extinct, 668 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,400 but what's the point of releasing it again if all the threats persist? 669 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,640 I think that with these birds out here, we are able 670 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,200 to capture people's hearts and minds 671 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:55,120 and really advocate for them and ask folks to change their habits. 672 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:02,640 After more than 30 years and more than $40 million, 673 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:07,720 there are now 228 California condors in the wild. 674 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:13,160 With the California condor, zoos have achieved the near impossible. 675 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:17,040 I mean, it's taken a huge amount of effort and money 676 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,520 and intensive, relentless interventions to keep 677 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:25,000 the birds just about alive out here, but the battle they've been fighting 678 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:29,120 for decades now can't be won without changing human behaviour. 679 00:43:32,720 --> 00:43:35,520 This is not just a job to save the species. 680 00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:41,600 This is a human problem and we feel like janitors of the human culture. 681 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:45,080 We're trying to clean this mess up. 682 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,000 Until the culture changes and the lead is out of their food source, 683 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,760 me and the people I work with will be treating leads 684 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:52,680 until we retire, and probably beyond. 685 00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:02,040 When it comes to conservation, British zoos claim that 686 00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:06,480 at least 3% of their expenditure goes towards projects in the field. 687 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:10,400 Figures like this are hard to quantify across the zoo world, 688 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:14,480 but zoos say their conservation role is not just about funding. 689 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,200 We can use animals as ambassadors, we can use them for education 690 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:20,840 and that's really important. 691 00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,680 We have half a million people a year seeing these elephants 692 00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,680 and that's our opportunity to hook them into valuing them, 693 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,160 seeing what they're like for real, smelling them, 694 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,440 which you don't get from the TV, and then valuing wildlife is how 695 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,240 we're going to change the future, cos it's this generation 696 00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:39,240 of humans that needs to change their behaviour to save the wild. 697 00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:43,480 The goal of zoos to educate the public about the importance 698 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,120 of conservation is laudable, but so far, 699 00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:50,320 their success has not been scientifically proven. 700 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,040 The claim that seeing elephants in the zoo will turn you 701 00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:58,200 into a conservationist is a completely false claim. 702 00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:02,040 There's no evidence at all that seeing animals in zoos 703 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,080 changes people's opinion. 704 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,400 As our cities continue to grow, along with our 705 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,680 insatiable consumption of the planet's resources, 706 00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:24,080 the destruction of wild habitats is speeding up. 707 00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,040 Surveying this seemingly unstoppable tide 708 00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,320 is conservation scientist Dr Sarah Bexell. 709 00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:34,480 As a veteran of captive breeding programmes, 710 00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,400 she has strong personal views. 711 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:41,000 I definitely for a long time have been worried that we 712 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,800 are sending the wrong message to the general public, 713 00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:48,000 that you can drive your SUV and you can have as many children 714 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:49,400 as you want. 715 00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,640 Don't worry, we'll save a couple of the cute ones for you. 716 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:57,440 Science is going to save the animals we deem worthy of saving. 717 00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:06,480 For the past 25 years, Sarah has worked on some of 718 00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,600 the world's biggest reintroduction programmes - 719 00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,800 the golden lion tamarin in Brazil, 720 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,800 the black-footed ferret in the American West, 721 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,840 the giant panda programme in China. 722 00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:24,560 Like others, this project is succeeding in breeding animals, 723 00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,160 but struggling to build a self-sustaining population 724 00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:29,600 in the wild. 725 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:33,680 Around 400 pandas have been bred in captivity, 726 00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,720 but just five have been released and only three survive. 727 00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,600 All things considered, a huge amount of money 728 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,920 has been spent on the captive breeding programme 729 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:50,760 for pandas and considering so few, although precious individuals, 730 00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:54,200 have been reintroduced, has it been worth it? 731 00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:55,600 Is it worth it? 732 00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:00,440 Ah. 733 00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:06,120 I mean, we've learned a lot, absolutely. 734 00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:10,720 Filled volumes of journals and textbooks and... 735 00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:15,680 But we have not made significant headway in terms of conservation. 736 00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:21,000 So, I mean, I guess right now, we would almost have to say 737 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:26,320 it has been quite a failure and even though many of these projects even 738 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,840 were considered successful for short periods of time, 739 00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:31,600 they've lost ground. 740 00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,520 And should we continue them? 741 00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:43,560 Right now, I'm feeling no, because I'm really worried that it's 742 00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:47,640 sending the wrong message to humanity. 743 00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:49,640 It's giving humanity false hopes. 744 00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,960 Captive breeding appeared to be a conservation panacea, 745 00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,680 promising to curb extinctions and replenish the wild. 746 00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:04,360 But as humanity's destruction of habitat gathers pace, 747 00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,120 Sarah believes zoos need to level with us 748 00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:11,080 about what saving endangered species would really require. 749 00:48:13,240 --> 00:48:16,320 I think we need to be brutally honest with the world, 750 00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:20,920 that science is not just going to clean up the mess for you all. 751 00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:23,040 We all have to get behind this, 752 00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,200 we all have to be a part of the solution. 753 00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:33,520 Perhaps the most controversial of all zoo breeding programmes 754 00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,840 is that of the northern white rhino. 755 00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:41,040 The effort to save this species from extinction began in the mid-1970s 756 00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:46,120 as the persecution of these animals by humans increased dramatically. 757 00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:49,440 No animal is safe from poachers. 758 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,640 There were three more white rhino until a few months ago. 759 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,240 Then poachers butchered them at point blank range 760 00:48:55,240 --> 00:48:57,080 to steal their valuable horns. 761 00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:03,960 As northern white rhinos were relentlessly hunted over decades, 762 00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,240 the future of the species came to depend entirely 763 00:49:07,240 --> 00:49:10,120 on the ability of zoos to breed them, 764 00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,360 and that proved far from easy. 765 00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,800 The species is now extinct in the wild 766 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:20,480 and unravelling the reasons why reveals just how many 767 00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:24,800 aspects of the breeding programme fell short of expectations. 768 00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:32,360 This is the Dvur Kralove Zoo in the Czech Republic. 769 00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:36,680 I'm here to see a very special animal. 770 00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:37,680 This is Nabire. 771 00:49:39,720 --> 00:49:45,840 'Nabire is one of the last five northern white rhinos on Earth.' 772 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,080 Can we say hello, with an apple? 773 00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:50,480 Moment. 774 00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:52,000 Little bit back, no. 775 00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,360 Yeah, pull everything back. She might chew on my cuff. 776 00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,080 Take it like this. Just like that? OK, so not flat hand. 777 00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,440 OK, put that inside. OK, I can put that inside. 778 00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,240 I can give you an apple, beauty. 779 00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:08,080 Oh, OK, here we go. Perfect. Here we go. 780 00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:10,600 Ohhh! 781 00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,160 HE SPEAKS CZECH 782 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:18,080 Nabire is of breeding age, but unfortunately she's now infertile. 783 00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,080 The history of the captive population is 784 00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:26,560 a story of extinction taking place in slow motion. 785 00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:34,480 Since 1975, when northern white rhinos were first brought to 786 00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:38,200 this zoo, just four calves had been born in captivity. 787 00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:41,480 For many years, 788 00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:46,160 the zoo didn't know how to maximise the chances of breeding. 789 00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:48,200 We started to understand 790 00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:49,360 if you have, you know, 791 00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:51,640 all the animals at one place for a long time, 792 00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,960 it somehow blocks the, let's say, breeding appetites. 793 00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:01,000 As they failed to breed, the female rhinos were becoming infertile. 794 00:51:03,240 --> 00:51:06,040 When there were just two fertile females left, 795 00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:10,240 a decision was made to attempt artificial insemination. 796 00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:12,120 All our hope is on her 797 00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:15,200 and we will try to get her pregnant as soon as possible. 798 00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,120 But the attempt failed. 799 00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:21,720 Failing with the artificial insemination doesn't mean 800 00:51:21,720 --> 00:51:23,320 the programme failed. 801 00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:27,640 We were quite optimistic that we would achieve a pregnancy over time, 802 00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:33,720 if we would get full support for such assist reproduction programme. 803 00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:40,200 The zoo devised a new strategy. 804 00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,840 The last two fertile females were sent 805 00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,720 to the Ol Pejeta Conservancy in Kenya. 806 00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:53,560 It was fully understandable, but it stopped our programme 807 00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:58,040 and, based on the experience we have now, you know, 808 00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:00,920 that was most likely not the right decision. 809 00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,000 In Kenya, one female became infertile. 810 00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:08,000 The other was too physically weak to breed. 811 00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:13,400 In 2014, two of the remaining rhinos died in captivity, 812 00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:17,360 leaving a total of just five. 813 00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:26,200 But there might still be a chance to stop the northern white rhino 814 00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,760 from disappearing from the planet for ever. 815 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,640 In California, scientists are trying to achieve in the lab 816 00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:38,080 what hasn't been possible in the zoo. 817 00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:41,280 In this batch we have boxes of tubes 818 00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:46,120 and this tube here contains stem cells of the northern white rhino. 819 00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:50,680 These stem cells were made from northern white rhino skin. 820 00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,720 So they can become any cell of the body? 821 00:52:53,720 --> 00:52:55,000 Any cell of the body. 822 00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:57,400 So in that small sample lies potentially... 823 00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:59,440 More than a million cells. 824 00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:01,320 And the future of the northern white rhino. 825 00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,680 It's as simple as that, really, isn't it? Absolutely. 826 00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:04,880 It's extraordinary. 827 00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:12,600 Professor Jeanne Loring saw how stem cells could be used to save 828 00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,240 endangered species. 829 00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:19,560 If we can make gametes from those cells, 830 00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:24,200 we can then take the sperm from one animal, an animal that's already 831 00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:29,720 dead, and eggs from another animal and make an entirely new individual. 832 00:53:29,720 --> 00:53:33,440 An embryo would be implanted into a surrogate animal, 833 00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:37,200 the closely related southern white rhino. 834 00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:44,000 The contents of this freezer are now part of a new multi-million-dollar 835 00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:48,240 effort to engineer northern white rhinos into existence 836 00:53:48,240 --> 00:53:50,840 within ten years. 837 00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:55,360 Professor Loring and Professor Hildebrandt are working with 838 00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:59,800 San Diego Zoo and Dvur Kralove Zoo on the rescue plan. 839 00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:04,840 The San Diego Zoo put dramatic resources in this rescue programme 840 00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:08,080 which wasn't seen before. 841 00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:12,760 What we hope to achieve is that with this new approach, 842 00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:17,160 we can establish a new population of healthy northern white rhinos 843 00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:20,960 which then can mate natural-wise in the future. 844 00:54:27,240 --> 00:54:31,400 But trying to bring back a species after it has gone extinct 845 00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:33,560 is fraught with uncertainty. 846 00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:35,280 SHE EXHALES 847 00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:41,040 Despite immense efforts by zoos over decades, 848 00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:45,040 the northern white rhino is slipping away. 849 00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:51,360 It's impossible not to get emotional, 850 00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:55,640 setting eyes on one of the last five remaining northern white rhinos. 851 00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:03,680 The factors that led to the situation are complex 852 00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:06,400 and we have learned from our mistakes 853 00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:11,640 and what we might do differently now, given the chance. 854 00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:16,520 But the hard truth is, we failed this species. 855 00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:23,800 And if we fail with such a charismatic, popular animal... 856 00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:29,800 ..then what hope is there for other species, 857 00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:33,880 the thousands of other species that are threatened or endangered? 858 00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,320 The public's relationship with zoos has remained intact since this 859 00:55:56,320 --> 00:56:00,720 elephant house opened in Copenhagen Zoo more than a century ago. 860 00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:05,640 But can zoos survive for another century? 861 00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:11,320 As it becomes more and more evident 862 00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:13,400 that many of the big animals that are 863 00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:19,000 the standard stars of zoos should not be in captivity for scientific 864 00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:23,360 reasons, that these animals are not thriving and cannot thrive, 865 00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:28,720 I think that the public will react in similar ways to the way they've 866 00:56:28,720 --> 00:56:32,400 reacted to the revelations about what was happening in SeaWorld. 867 00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:36,000 I never even thought that they would go extinct 20 years ago, 868 00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:38,760 but now I'm certain that they will. 869 00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:44,280 There are a lot of people today who say that zoos should shut down. 870 00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:45,440 What do you think? 871 00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:48,680 I think those arguments of zoos being part of a problem 872 00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:52,960 and using animals and having massive welfare issues and not educating 873 00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:55,840 the public and not doing conservation, 874 00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:57,680 was true in the '40s, '50s, '60s 875 00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:01,160 and - shame on us - probably in the '70s and early '80s as well. 876 00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:03,800 But genuinely, in the last 10 or 15 years, 877 00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:07,240 the world's changed and a lot of zoos have woken up to that and 878 00:57:07,240 --> 00:57:10,760 a lot of zoos are run now by people like me who passionately understand 879 00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:14,760 this, understand the arguments and we're trying to make a difference. 880 00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:24,120 Throughout their history, zoos have adapted and grown and changed, 881 00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:27,640 and it's evident in the architecture of any zoo you look at. 882 00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:31,000 I mean, this used to be the only enclosure for an adult elephant 883 00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:34,240 throughout the winter months back in the '60s. 884 00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:39,200 Clearly, zoos have moved on. 885 00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:42,760 This is Copenhagen's newest indoor enclosure for elephants, 886 00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:45,880 but are zoos changing enough? 887 00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:51,520 The zoo of the future, you'd have a lot of binoculars around the place, 888 00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:54,800 because your elephants will be right away on the other side 889 00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:59,440 and your chimpanzees would be high in a tree up there, five storeys up. 890 00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:02,440 You'd need your binoculars. That's the kind of zoo. 891 00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:04,320 It's not what you'd call a zoo now. 892 00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:07,560 RON KAGAN: There is a bright future 893 00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:12,280 for zoos, as long as zoos are totally committed to 894 00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:16,880 continuing to do research so that we understand what animals need, 895 00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:21,160 and that if we can't meet those needs, that we don't keep them. 896 00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,600 So, in light of what the science is now telling us, 897 00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:29,880 are zoos willing to reappraise their fundamental roles as zoological 898 00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:31,920 and conservation organisations? 899 00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:38,240 The potential for zoos to educate about how we can interact 900 00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:41,680 with wildlife responsibly is enormous, 901 00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:45,240 but to reach the goal many scientists speak of 902 00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:48,200 would require substantial change. 903 00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:52,240 The question now is how much zoos and we, the public, 904 00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:54,500 want that change to happen.