1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:07,760 This programme contains scenes which some viewers may find upsetting 2 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,120 VOICE SINGS IN OWN LANGUAGE 3 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,400 "He asked if it were possible to make up a story that had no moral or 4 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:22,920 "meaning. 5 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,840 "We discussed how the ideal story should begin innocently, 6 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:30,960 "like a fairy tale..." DISTANT SIREN 7 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,720 "..be frightening like a nightmare in the middle and conclude sadly, 8 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:36,720 "like a love story ending in separation." 9 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:45,720 "Somewhere in the streets of Istanbul, there lived another Orhan, 10 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,280 "so much like me that he could pass for my own twin. 11 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,520 "I'm nothing but a corpse now. 12 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,280 "A body at the bottom of a well. 13 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,480 "Though I drew my last breath long ago and my heart has stopped 14 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,080 "beating, no-one apart from that 15 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,160 "vile murderer knows what's happened to me." 16 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:15,160 Orhan Pamuk is one of the few Turks known far beyond their country, 17 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:20,120 along with the moderniser Ataturk and today's iron fist, 18 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,760 President Erdogan. CHORAL MUSIC 19 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:28,000 Pamuk was thrust to fame by two momentous events. 20 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:29,840 SHOUTING 21 00:01:30,960 --> 00:01:33,200 He was put on trial for speaking out 22 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:35,640 about the fate of Turkey's Armenians... 23 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,000 ..and he won the Nobel Prize for Literature. 24 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:41,520 APPLAUSE 25 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:47,920 You have made your native city an indispensable literary territory, 26 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:53,320 equal to Dostoevsky's St Petersburg, Joyce's Dublin or Proust's Paris, 27 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:57,760 a place where readers from all corners of the world can live another life 28 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:59,600 just as credible as their own. 29 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:05,080 Pamuk's own sense of leading a double life, and the tensions he 30 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:09,200 lives under, spill over into a museum he's created, 31 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,440 a museum of history, mystery and longing. 32 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,920 CROWS CAW 33 00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:20,720 This is the story of a writer's love affair with his changing city. 34 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,280 "In a city, you can be alone in a crowd. 35 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,320 "In fact, what makes the city a city is that it lets you hide the 36 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:43,080 "strangeness in your mind inside its teeming multitudes." CATS MEOW 37 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:44,880 DOOR KNOCKER 38 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,840 Oh, hello! Hello! LAUGHTER 39 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,200 Very nice to see you. Great to see you. Great to be here. 40 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,440 Please, come in. Thank you. 41 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,280 My God, what a view! 42 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:02,120 But it's not sharp today. 43 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:09,160 I like Istanbul's winter better than summer. 44 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:13,160 Why? Probably because of my childhood. 45 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:18,080 I like the black and white Istanbul, the melancholic Istanbul. 46 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:22,680 Around early 2000, this was only an office, then...I was married 47 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,960 then, and I used to walk here, just like every man had an office, 48 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,120 come to the office, go back. 49 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,520 But after political pressures, death threats, 50 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,480 the Turkish security police advised me, 51 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,040 why don't I live in the same place where I write? 52 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,320 Which I also believe good police advice, 53 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,680 because if you write in the same space that you have your sleep, 54 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:50,160 then your dreams are combined with the texts. 55 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,320 Which I'm... HE LAUGHS 56 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,040 That is, that's such an Orhan line, 57 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,080 "the dreams are combined with the texts"! 58 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,040 Yeah, or intertwined with the texts. 59 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:04,160 I like it when you're dreaming, and I wake up always after... 60 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,800 ..like my father, after the age of 50, I never have eight hours of sleep, 61 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,440 I wake up in the middle of the night, and with my pyjamas on, 62 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:13,960 I tick, tick, tick, sit at my table. 63 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:15,560 And then I have also this. 64 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,720 What's the name of that building? Cihangir Mosque. 65 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:25,080 Before this, there was a monastery here. 66 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,280 Istanbul was only there. 67 00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:29,760 The Topkapi is there, of course. 68 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,160 Then there was not even a road - you come from there with a boat. 69 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,080 Our conservative government, although they're conservatives, 70 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,480 they are destroying a lot of old buildings, 71 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,560 they are destroying our history. 72 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:47,600 But the only thing they're preserving are the mosques. 73 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,280 But they don't care about the rest. 74 00:04:50,280 --> 00:04:53,880 They don't think that history, our identities, 75 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,160 are related to old neighbourhoods, old architecture. 76 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,440 But I don't want to complain. Look at this. 77 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,760 You don't want to complain, but you ARE complaining. 78 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:03,480 This is very contradictory. Yes. 79 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,920 This is your way. Yes, this is the balance of truth in my life! LAUGHTER 80 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,600 I want to capture the beauty of the life, 81 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:12,320 but how can you not complain when 82 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,240 you see they are destroying that beauty? 83 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,720 What is the novel you're currently writing? 84 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,880 I'm writing a historical novel that takes place in 1900, 85 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:31,000 and there is plague, Ottomans, Europeans, imposition of quarantine. 86 00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:36,760 There is also boys and girls and love and the richness, 87 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,000 complexity of life in my part of the world. 88 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,640 Quarantine is a horrible thing. 89 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,080 People come to your house - "Just leave your house, we're burning 90 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,800 "this, we're burning that!" A Turkish doctor would want 91 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:54,200 quarantine, so that he saves the lives of his people, 92 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,840 while the people DON'T want that. 93 00:05:56,840 --> 00:05:58,920 I like these ironies. 94 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:03,600 Saving the lives of people who hate you, who don't want you, 95 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,160 who don't want your ideas, your science. 96 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,080 And this is the decline of Ottoman Empire - 97 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:14,120 even the normal person in Ottoman Empire understood that the empire 98 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,360 would not live long. So, also, this feeling of 99 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,880 decline, death, 100 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,480 Europe is doing so much and we cannot produce or this or that... 101 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,520 These are my subjects. 102 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,200 PIANO MUSIC PLAYS 103 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:36,720 "An old pharmacist was suffering from insomnia and memory loss. 104 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,720 "He invented a drug he hoped would cure him of his affliction. 105 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:41,280 "And it did. 106 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,360 "This caused a certain furore - 107 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,040 "naturally people were excited at the idea that a Turk had finally 108 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:49,840 "invented something. 109 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,760 "But we were never to know if, having cured himself of insomnia, 110 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:59,240 "he also found his way back to the heavenly garden of memory, 111 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:03,440 "for the old pharmacist slept on and on, never to wake again." 112 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:14,400 In my early years, I trashed Ottoman culture, 113 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,560 till I went to New York and I was 114 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,960 influenced by the vast American museums, 115 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,600 university libraries. 116 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:28,640 Then I began to ask myself, "Well, what is my identity?" 117 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,560 You grew up here in this extraordinary city, 118 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,760 and yet you have to go to America to discover that there is a history. 119 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:37,640 Yes. 120 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:42,600 After that, I paid attention to old culture and avant-garde literature 121 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:44,920 as well. 122 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:50,160 A person who was, say, reading TS Eliot and also Ottoman poetry 123 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,600 was the ideal for me. 124 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,840 Pamuk's early book, The White Castle, was about just this - 125 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:06,840 the meeting and merging of east and west, Ottoman and European. 126 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:11,520 A Western slave has an Eastern owner who wants to learn all he knows 127 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:15,920 about science. They gradually swap roles. 128 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,480 There are no Eastern persons, there are no Western persons, 129 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,520 there are no secular persons, 130 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,840 there are no heavily fundamentalist or religious persons - 131 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,560 we all have it in our hearts. 132 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:37,000 In his breakthrough book, My Name Is Red, Pamuk blends Ottoman history, 133 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,960 the murder mystery and the post-modern. 134 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,680 In the 16th century, the Sultan's painters at the palace illustrate 135 00:08:43,680 --> 00:08:48,080 books with jewel-like stylised miniatures, like these. 136 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:54,960 This is one of the scene of scenes that is imitated all the time, 137 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:59,640 all the time. They feel threatened but intrigued by the new art 138 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,320 infiltrating from the West, with its realism and perspective. 139 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:09,480 The Venetian artist Bellini was sent to the Sultan's court. 140 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,080 Bellini does a painting of a scribe. 141 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,120 Ottoman miniaturist. Look at that painting. 142 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,320 And then they do a Muslim version of Bellini. 143 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,640 They put them together and copied - look at the hand. 144 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,280 They added something here, right? Yeah. What have they added? 145 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:27,880 They added a miniature. 146 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,400 "If, under the influence of the Franks, we paint, embracing 147 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:39,280 "our individuality, we might resemble ourselves, 148 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,320 "but we won't be ourselves." 149 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,720 TRADITIONAL MUSIC PLAYS 150 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:59,480 So, this is the outer wall of Topkapi Palace. 151 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:01,320 Yeah. 152 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,880 I remember the first time that I was around here, 153 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:09,120 because it was something interesting and strange. 154 00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:13,000 Maybe I liked the "otherness". 155 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,560 "Death occupied my mind - 156 00:10:17,560 --> 00:10:19,640 "the silence of death - 157 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,360 "but as I passed through the gate where countless pashas had been 158 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,920 "executed, the guards acted as if they didn't even see us. 159 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,920 "My parents bought some basic pocket books, 160 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,320 "one of which was about Ottoman art, 161 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,280 "and I used to copy the Ottoman miniatures. 162 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,040 "When I was 13, I could tell the difference between 16th century and 163 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:44,040 "18th-century miniatures." 164 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,800 A murder scene. 165 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:54,800 Between the ages of seven and 22, I thought that I would be a painter. 166 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:59,400 The desire to paint never stopped. 167 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:04,600 But I killed, in a way, killed the painter in me, and started writing. 168 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,960 "You will examine books that no-one else has seen, 169 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,600 "you will gaze upon incredible pictures and pages of gold, and like 170 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,880 "hunters, you will track the spore of your prey - the murderer." 171 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:30,400 I'll show you the places that matter to me for my novel. Yeah. 172 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,680 "I am a tree and I am quite lonely. 173 00:11:35,680 --> 00:11:38,360 "I weep in the rain. 174 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,800 "For the sake of Allah, listen to what I have to say. 175 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,600 "I don't want to be a tree, I want to be its meaning." 176 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,120 This was built in... 177 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:56,000 It's never one century. Everyone adds something. 178 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:00,600 But what counts is these courtyards - the more you go in, 179 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,680 the more you're at the heart of the palace. 180 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:12,040 In 1995, I'm writing My Name Is Red. 181 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,800 I came here. I was not that famous then, and a guy said, 182 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:17,920 "Aren't you Orhan Pamuk?" I was not that famous. 183 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,360 "Yes." "Oh, are you going to write a book set here?" 184 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,640 And I said a bit nervously, a bit feeling upset about it, and I said, 185 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:25,640 "Yes!" HE LAUGHS 186 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:32,520 That day, I entered the Treasury, because, in my book, 187 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,800 they also entered that place. 188 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:43,960 "We fearfully and silently, as in a dream, passed the Treasury." CLOCK TICKS 189 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:48,360 "I felt that I'd seen this place before and knew it well. 190 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,520 "Yes, I was in the presence of the head treasurer - 191 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,120 "he was gazing upon the illustrations that rested on a 192 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,360 "reading table, where the clerk had 193 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,560 "placed them after taking them from me." 194 00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:01,200 CLOCK CHIMES 195 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,840 "The pictures remained with the head treasurer, 196 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,720 "and I passed through the Gate of Salutation, 197 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,960 "which had earlier felt like the gate of Heaven." 198 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,520 It's problematic, displaying miniatures - 199 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,040 once they're exposed to light, 200 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:17,640 they die, they fade away. 201 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:30,800 This place always motivates my imagination. 202 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:32,680 I like old things. 203 00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:36,520 And not because old things represent, for me, national 204 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,800 identity, national past - but they 205 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,680 evoke other worlds, other places, 206 00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:49,480 and also places that I feel I have strong affinity to, 207 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:54,040 but I don't know why. And my novels are also about that. 208 00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:00,800 My flat is there, right at Cihangir Mosque. 209 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,760 As I showed Topkapi from my flat, 210 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,800 now I'm showing you my flat from Topkapi. 211 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,720 SHIP HORN BLOWS 212 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,080 "Just as the doors of houses are closed of an evening and the city is 213 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:17,400 "left to darkness, painting was also abandoned. 214 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,600 "It was mercilessly forgotten that we'd once looked upon our world 215 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,400 "quite differently. 216 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,600 "The miniaturists did not grow angry and revolt, 217 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,080 "but like old men who quietly succumbed to an illness, 218 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,200 "they gradually accepted the 219 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,600 "situation with humble grief and resignation." 220 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:43,680 Freud says, what is repressed comes back in disguise. 221 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:48,720 I am the past of Turkey coming back 222 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,560 in postmodern clothes. 223 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:58,880 Living in this city for 60 years is seeing everything change, 224 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,040 everything change, everything change. 225 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,920 Especially in our neighbourhoods, 226 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,600 we used to play with my brother, this game. 227 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,920 "So, what was this shop before?" "Something, a sandwich shop." 228 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:13,400 "But before that?" You know, "A shoe shop." 229 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,280 "Before that?" "A bank." "What about before that?" 230 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:17,920 "Oh, yes, that...!" 231 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,000 Living in a city, after a while, you learn everything, 232 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:22,560 and that's your life. 233 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:24,760 MELANCHOLY PIANO MUSIC PLAYS 234 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,840 Pamuk's secular, upper-middle-class family saw 235 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,800 themselves as looking to the future and to Europe. 236 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:45,520 They were followers of Turkey's modernising leader, Ataturk, 237 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,520 and sent their children to westernised schools. 238 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:01,720 They all lived in this upmarket area of Istanbul, Nisantasi. 239 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:06,240 It's unrecognisable now from those days - though their house still 240 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,880 stands. Welcome! Hello! 241 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,600 I'm here to greet you in your own home! 242 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,600 This is my daughter. Hello. Very nice to meet you, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. 243 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,880 We are now in front of the family apartment. 244 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:24,480 I lived here a lot of years, maybe 30 years. But it's... 245 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,960 ..it has, full of so many memories. 246 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:31,040 Isn't it strange to have a building named after you? 247 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,880 OK, it's a bit embarrassing, but let me explain, 248 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:35,560 that's the tradition here. 249 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:40,200 The family name was put in front of the apartment building as a sort of 250 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:45,000 address. This is a very posh area, very upmarket area, isn't it? 251 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,080 Yes. Yes, that's one of the reasons that I'm not living here. 252 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,080 The spirit of the place is lost. 253 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:56,560 It used to be old two-storey and three-storey-high buildings. 254 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,720 A lot of consulates, too, here, gardens... 255 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,080 There used to be wooden houses here, 256 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,160 then those houses were all torn down. 257 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,520 What's your memories of this building? 258 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,680 During my childhood, we lived in another apartment building, just one 259 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,120 street away. We visited relatives 260 00:17:15,120 --> 00:17:18,320 here and I knew that it was very central to my father's work, 261 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:21,200 especially for The Museum Of Innocence, 262 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:22,560 and The Black Book. 263 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:28,720 "Memories you thought you'd lost forever came flooding back into your 264 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,120 "mind - memories you'd forgotten you forgot. 265 00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:35,760 "It's like being a child again and pulling out an old cabinet to find 266 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:37,960 "behind it all these coloured pencils, 267 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,120 "combs and lavender marbles you'd forgotten you lost." 268 00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:48,800 This is probably my first photo in my life. 269 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,680 This is my father. HE CHUCKLES 270 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,520 These are all you, yeah? Yes! 271 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:58,200 This is my mother and my brother. 272 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,480 I'm not jealous of their intimacy, Alan. Really?! LAUGHTER 273 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,520 This is at the balcony of Pamuk Apartments, 274 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,040 and one of these...these buildings are still there. 275 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,720 "We lived on the fourth floor, but I had the run of the entire building 276 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,640 "from the time I was old enough to climb off my mother's lap, 277 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:23,560 "and can recall that on each floor there was at least one piano. 278 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:27,520 "When my last bachelor uncle put his newspaper down long enough to get 279 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,720 married and his new wife moved into the first-floor apartment from which 280 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,360 "she was to spend the next half-century gazing out of the 281 00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:38,000 "window, she brought her piano with her." 282 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:39,600 Who is that? This is me. 283 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,640 "No-one ever played on this piano, or any of the others. 284 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,880 "I assumed pianos were places for exhibiting photographs." 285 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,560 My grandfather died early. 286 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:54,880 My grandmother was the powerful person carrying a set of keys and 287 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,480 shouting at everyone and scolding, 288 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,920 although she never left the apartment building. 289 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,840 But she was controlling the whole population, 290 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:10,480 and her cook was the cook for the whole family. 291 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:14,120 He would shout, "The dinner is ready!" 292 00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:18,680 And then you would hear all the uncles, cousins, various floors, 293 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,480 would hear that the family's gathering for dinner. 294 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:22,840 I loved that! 295 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:28,240 This was family life, normal life. Family life is always, for me, 296 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,960 fighting, arguing, shouting. 297 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:36,040 These photos that I'm showing you are actually taken, were taken 298 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:40,360 in the years when family were troubled in business. 299 00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:45,520 My father and my uncles were losing a lot of money, and my grandmother 300 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,880 was crying all the time. 301 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,320 But it also... 302 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:56,400 ..but they continued the sort of fancy family life we had. 303 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:01,560 And my mother tells me that I am always an optimistic person, 304 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,360 open to the world, that's how I was. 305 00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:07,960 And after so many intimidations and drama, 306 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,400 I'm still in a happy morning day, 307 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,440 open to the world and happy, and 308 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,920 frankly believe that everything will be fine. 309 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,560 This is the sad Orhan - probably there are some worries, 310 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:24,040 I know what's in my head. I still have this chemistry, angry, 311 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,680 "I'll have revenge," "I'll show you, I'll show you!" I'm saying. 312 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,920 I know what I'm thinking. I'm sometimes like that now! 313 00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:34,200 Shall we go upstairs? 314 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,280 "I'll give you something back! 315 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:38,040 "Agh...!" 316 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,720 So, this is my archive... Your archive. 317 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:45,600 Then we go here. 318 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,800 My cousins, my grandfather, 319 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,240 my father, uncles, all had mathematical minds. 320 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,840 I was terrorised with my uncle asking me mathematical quizzes, 321 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,000 even when he catches me in the stairs. 322 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,840 Maybe I wanted to be an artist to run away from the terrors of 323 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,680 mathematics. For me, a house is 324 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,120 where you should have access to your library. 325 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,840 "Sitting rooms where not meant to be places where you could hope to sit 326 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,040 "comfortably." CLOCK TICKS 327 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,280 "They were little museums designed to demonstrate to a hypothetical 328 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,560 "visitor that the householders were westernised." 329 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:36,600 His Museum Of Innocence is both a novel about obsessive love and a 330 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,000 real museum in Istanbul, 331 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:43,040 which displays all the objects which the characters in the novel touch, 332 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,080 see and hear. 333 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,680 It's a collection of objects of desire. 334 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:54,760 When I was making the museum, every day with my bodyguard behind me, 335 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,440 I walked this 11-minute walk. 336 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,440 And that was a happy period of my life, because I was not writing, 337 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:06,360 I was working with a group, group of artists, to finish the museum. 338 00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:14,240 I didn't feel guilty about not writing. 339 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:18,400 I was happy in that I have an aim, an artistic aim, 340 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:23,280 I am accomplishing something and doing with other people. 341 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:28,240 I like working with other people. In the end, I like being in crowds. 342 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:35,840 He put the money from winning the Nobel Prize into the museum. 343 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,160 OK, here we are - Museum Of Innocence, aha! 344 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,040 CLOCK TICKS 345 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:03,720 As if in a dream, the museum merges Orhan's own early life, 346 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,000 the lives of the thwarted lovers in his novel, 347 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,000 and that of Turkey in the 20th century. 348 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,640 "It was the happiest moment of my life, though I didn't know it. 349 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,560 "Had I known, had I cherished this gift, 350 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,560 "would everything have turned out differently? 351 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:29,120 "Yes - if I had a recognised this instance of perfect happiness, 352 00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:32,800 "I would have held it fast and never let it slip away." 353 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,280 LIVELY PIANO MUSIC PLAYS 354 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,320 "While I waited for my mother to notice me, 355 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,560 "I would sit at her dressing table and fiddle with her perfume bottles, 356 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,680 "lipsticks, fingernail polish, 357 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,960 "Colognes, rose water and almond oils. 358 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,080 "I would rummage through the drawers, play with the assortment of 359 00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:00,600 "tweezers, scissors, nail files, eyebrow pencils, brushes, 360 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,560 "combs and various other sharp, pointed instruments. 361 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,720 "I'd look at the baby photographs of me and my brother that she had slid 362 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,320 "under the pane of glass on the table." 363 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,480 My uncle had an American Dodge. 364 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,800 D-O-D-G-E. 365 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,320 And he would give the key of the car to my father, 366 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,000 and my father would put us in the car and we would go to Bosporus, 367 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,400 every Sunday, and my father would take a camera. 368 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,920 My love of Bosporus comes from this. 369 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:54,600 It's a happy family day, we stop and buy fish, 370 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,080 we listen to, Sunday, some music some place. 371 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:03,160 I loved it when he cracked jokes, and he was smarter than any of us. 372 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,320 And, in fact, I wanted to be like him. 373 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,760 These are photos that I shot. 374 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:17,000 I was happy about this picture because very rare my mother 375 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:21,800 embraced, touched my father like this. A romantic photo. 376 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:29,320 There is a sadness with my mother and with my family, 377 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,120 first because my father was disappearing. 378 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,480 He was not around. 379 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:40,520 And the reason for this, that, erm, he ran away with other woman, 380 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,080 to tell the truth. 381 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:47,880 And then my mother was left with my father's side. 382 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,320 So my mother was living with my grandmother, with my paternal 383 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,920 cousins, with my father's brothers, 384 00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:00,080 with my father's sisters, while the father was absent. 385 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:05,760 My mother and father sometimes would intensely argue. 386 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:10,960 Tensions upset me. I preferred that when the tensions express, 387 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,840 they had a fight, and then one of them disappears and then we are left 388 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,440 with the other. Though I want this person, my father or my mother, 389 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,520 back, they would treat us better when they had a fight! 390 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,800 LAUGHTER 391 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,800 They would go to different places and leave us with my grandmother. 392 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,360 Sometimes they would even separate us. 393 00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:39,280 And then I wanted to return back to our house and dream of the other 394 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,440 Orhan who was left there. 395 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:47,920 It was the idea of my double, which is in German called doppelganger. 396 00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:50,720 ATMOSPHERIC CHORAL MUSIC 397 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,400 "On winter evenings, walking through the streets of the city, 398 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,000 "I would gaze into other people's houses through the pale orange light 399 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,200 "of home, and dream of happy, 400 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,120 "peaceful families living comfortable lives." DOG BARKS 401 00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:13,920 "Then I would shudder to think that the other Orhan might be living in 402 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,080 "one of these houses. 403 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,320 "I've never left Istanbul, never left the houses, 404 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,760 "streets and neighbourhoods of my childhood. 405 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,480 "I poured my soul into the city streets, and there it still resides." 406 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,640 VOICE YELLS IN OWN LANGUAGE 407 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:37,360 "The city has no centre other than ourselves. 408 00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:41,600 "For me, it's always been a city of ruins and end-of-empire melancholy. 409 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,640 "The people of Istanbul simply carry on their lives amongst the ruins." 410 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,000 MELANCHOLY PIANO MUSIC PLAYS 411 00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:12,800 There was a gulf, of course, between the Nisantasi set and the poor. 412 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,880 And the chasm, even back then, was religion. 413 00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:29,120 "Our maid, bored of being at home, carried me there, 414 00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:32,840 "and I liked that place, with its floors carpeted just like at home." 415 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:40,440 The family attended this, their local mosque, mainly for funerals. 416 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,880 "We reduced religion to a strange and sometimes amusing set of rules 417 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,160 "on which the lower classes depended. 418 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,640 "My fear, which I shared with everyone in the secular Turkish 419 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,040 "bourgeoisie, was not of God, but of 420 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,520 "the fury of those who believed in Her too much." 421 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,920 This, what's being said on these...? 422 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:12,960 Names of people. 423 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:17,120 Someone is in love with Begum. Um... 424 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,160 "What if hopes are finished?" 425 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,400 "We want a miracle." 426 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,360 "I'm bored." ALAN CHUCKLES 427 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,840 "From the moment I learned how to read, 428 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,480 "the imaginary world inside my head was adorned with constellations of 429 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,400 "letters. 430 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:41,000 "They did not convey meaning or even tell a story, they just made sounds. 431 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,640 "Walking home from school, even if I was very tired, 432 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,280 "my eyes would find words." 433 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,720 This is almost Dickensian, this... 434 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,960 ..these streets! Yes, you're right! THEY LAUGH 435 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:57,680 "The automatic reading machine installed itself in my head. 436 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,080 "At the same time, my mother had begun to instruct us in the dos and 437 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,520 "don'ts of life outside." 438 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,000 VENDOR SPEAKS IN OWN LANGUAGE 439 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,240 "Not to buy food from the dirty vendors on quiet streets." 440 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,240 THEY SPEAK IN OWN LANGUAGE 441 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:38,560 This grocery shop is titled Huzur - a very sophisticated word, 442 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,840 implying inner peace. 443 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,200 I care about names of apartment 444 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,280 buildings and names of small streets. 445 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:55,320 Grocery shop names - they are all poetic somehow. 446 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,640 And if you put them together - reading them, walking, reading them, 447 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,800 walking - I used to do that when I was a child and I'm still doing it. 448 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,560 CROW CAWS 449 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,840 I always wanted to live in a neighbourhood where children play in 450 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:18,280 the streets. 451 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,840 Instead, Orhan was in his house, full of pianos and carpets, 452 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,160 sparring with his elder brother. 453 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,000 He was strong, my brother. 454 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,840 And sometimes father was not around. 455 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,320 We were left to each other many, many times. 456 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:44,400 He used to bully me, and then this is normal in my part of the world. 457 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:49,520 I was crying and fighting back and being physical all the time, and my 458 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,000 mother would, "Don't fight! Enough!" 459 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,680 MARTIAL MUSIC PLAYS 460 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,800 Below in the street, things were hotting up. 461 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,240 The first of many military coups came in 1960. 462 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:16,120 In a country where human rights were violated so much, and in the '60s, 463 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,000 '70s, '80s, if you're a leftist, 464 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,640 there's no way that you can evade government torture. 465 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,120 In the '60s, '70s, if you're doing military service, 466 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,240 you would definitely get - if you're not a university graduate, 467 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:33,000 an officer - you would definitely get beaten. 468 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,200 In a country where there was so much physicality, 469 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,720 in an upper middle-class family - 470 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,160 a westernised, secular, civilised 471 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,800 family, we were also struggling and 472 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,440 pushing around, maybe too much. 473 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,120 MELANCHOLY MUSIC PLAYS 474 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,640 When I was here at the university, in the '70s, 475 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:15,080 left-wingers and right-wingers would shoot each other in these streets. 476 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,520 And most of the time, university was boycott, 477 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,160 or some group will control it and 478 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,520 would not allow the others to come here. 479 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,720 It was the nationalist gangs who used gun. 480 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,360 In order to survive, you either have to belong to one group, 481 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,800 or keep your opinions to yourself. 482 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,400 Oh, right! So, this was the 1970s? 483 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,640 Yes, this was the subject of Silent House, and also Black Book. 484 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,360 "The barber was washing somebody's head under the tap. 485 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,400 "He looked at us in the mirror. 486 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,080 "'I'll take two tickets, guys,' he said. 487 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,680 "'You could have ten,' said Mustafa. 'You could sell them here.' 488 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,160 "'Leave two, that's enough,' said the barber. 489 00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,600 "'Two?!' I suddenly lost it. 490 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,720 "'No, not just two! You'll take ten!'" 491 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,680 How does Turkey resolve these, how can someone from...? 492 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,760 I think political problems are resolvable, 493 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,360 and you have to have more... 494 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,800 ..less authoritarian, more democratic 495 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:23,400 leadership and more engagement with Europe. 496 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,320 "The people who lived in those old wooden houses in the city's outlying 497 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,880 "neighbourhoods were all waiting for a saviour. 498 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,600 "As was the rest of the city in those days - 499 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,800 "as they are even today. 500 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,000 "They sincerely believed that if the army stepped in, 501 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,400 "the price of bread would go down, 502 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:55,200 "that if sinners were tortured, the gates of Heaven would fly open." 503 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:04,280 At this radical, turbulent time, Pamuk was studying architecture. 504 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,440 One of his tasks was to advise on the preservation of the old Ottoman 505 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:10,000 houses. 506 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,720 It was a losing battle. 507 00:35:13,720 --> 00:35:17,560 Many buildings like that in my childhood, and I've seen all burning 508 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,440 down, all burning down, one by one. 509 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,280 ATMOSPHERIC MUSIC PLAYS 510 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,640 In the 1970s, 511 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,760 lazy professors would send us students around to central Istanbul, 512 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,600 where there were so many wooden houses. 513 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:49,240 They said, "Look at the old map and mark this as an old building. 514 00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:52,560 "Once your building is marked, you cannot destroy it." 515 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,920 So they hated us in those neighbourhoods. 516 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,560 This building is now preserved. 517 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,400 The regulations in the '60s were such that you burn it down and the 518 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,480 government says, "OK, you can do a building." 519 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,520 Then everyone burned their buildings. 520 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,440 Now they are tougher - if you burn it down, 521 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,920 you can only rebuild it like this. 522 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,760 They could have done a six-floor apartment building here. 523 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:21,560 MAN SPEAKS IN OWN LANGUAGE 524 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,400 See, they are destroying the history 525 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,960 and making...only to make money, he's complaining, rightfully. 526 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,160 You read his books. Yeah. What do you think of his books? HE ANSWERS IN OWN LANGUAGE 527 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,840 He's saying my sentences are long. Too long! 528 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,680 LAUGHTER 529 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,400 He could be your editor! Yes! LAUGHTER 530 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:57,520 It's a Unesco preservation? Yes. When I used to come here, 531 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,800 there was nothing like this 25 years ago, so they're improving! 532 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,240 Except it's not being given much respect, has it? Look! 533 00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:07,720 Yes. THEY LAUGH 534 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:14,160 The problem is that we all want to preserve the past because we also 535 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:19,200 want to have a glamorous identity - Ottoman sophistication - 536 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:24,080 but on the other hand, we also want the comforts of modernity, 537 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,400 and then it's very hard to reconcile these. 538 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:50,920 Turkey's golden age of architecture was long gone. 539 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,560 Young Orhan felt despair at what he would now be expected to build, 540 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,800 the city it would produce. 541 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,960 This is when he gave up painting and dropped out of architecture - 542 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:06,880 a God that had failed. 543 00:38:10,720 --> 00:38:14,880 "It was as if my soul were the pristine pages of a notebook. 544 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:19,920 "I had learned what was necessary, as well as what was unnecessary, 545 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,480 "and I had arrived at the end of all the adventures, 546 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,840 "voyages and mysteries I could possibly invent for myself." 547 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:33,200 Pamuk no longer presumed to design his city. 548 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,040 Instead, he would dream it, 549 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,880 chronicle it, construct it out of words. 550 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,200 "In this wretched land of ours, 551 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,120 "what other path is open to us except to write?" 552 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:52,680 For seven years, he would live alone with his mother, writing away. 553 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,720 Many of his early books would be 554 00:38:54,720 --> 00:38:57,320 based in his eccentric extended family. 555 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:04,000 "As he climbed the stairs, Galip steeled himself for what lay ahead, 556 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,640 "his mind racing through the scenes with the practised impatience of a 557 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:11,560 "reader leafing through a book he's already read too many times to count. 558 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,640 "Uncle Melih will be in grandfather's chair, 559 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,160 "reading the newspaper he's brought down from his own apartment. 560 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:25,280 "He will say the usual - 'That boy's never going to pull himself together. Never!'" 561 00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:31,760 I think he's a great model for young writers. 562 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,520 He was my idol, 563 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,960 not because he was successful or brave or he knew Ottoman history or 564 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,800 modernist literature, but because he was patient. 565 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,120 He could devote 566 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:49,160 all his hours to writing, to forging sentences, 567 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,560 and that's the kind of devotion that I wanted in my life, 568 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:57,720 and I think that's why he inspires so many Turks, young Turks, 569 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,120 because of his devotion, 570 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,600 like a monk. 571 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:07,640 We want novelists to be wise men and women who come out of their caves 572 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,840 maybe every five years and deliver us the book. 573 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,520 But it didn't down go down so well with Orhan's family. 574 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,400 I was a disappointment for my mother. 575 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,720 My brother went to best American university, 576 00:40:23,720 --> 00:40:26,600 while I am a university dropout. 577 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,800 I'm saying, "I'm going to be a novelist." 578 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:32,400 No-one trusts that. 579 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:36,280 Is there anyone successful as a novelist in this poor country in the 580 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,920 1970s? 581 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,120 My mother once said about me... 582 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,840 there was no prospect of a good life for me, 583 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,520 and I also felt guilty about that. 584 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,560 These were the saddest years of my life. 585 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,280 My cousins, my friends, were getting married. 586 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,120 And I wouldn't want to go to that wedding because there I was, almost 587 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,120 30, 29, and everyone would ask me, 588 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:08,960 "Orhan, what do you do?" 589 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,360 And my answer was, 590 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,760 "I'm writing a novel, and it's not even published, and I'm doing that 591 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:19,920 "for six years." And everyone would think, "My God, this guy is lost!" 592 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,360 So I would be embarrassed to go there, 593 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,760 and stay at home and work and work and hope for success! 594 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,280 CROWD CHANTS 595 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,720 He looked down on a world in chaos. 596 00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:38,000 This led to another military coup in 1980. 597 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:43,880 It would haunt his books. 598 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,920 This is the time that he began, in earnest, his pacing around the back 599 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:51,440 streets of the city. 600 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:58,560 "If my fast-extinguishing love of painting could no longer save me, 601 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,360 "then the city's poor neighbourhoods 602 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:05,040 "seemed prepared in any event to become my second world." 603 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,240 The streets had a consoling power. 604 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:16,840 Streets somehow answered my sentiments of sadness, loneliness, 605 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:23,280 thinking that if you go in, that inner richness matters. 606 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,680 There was another impulse, too. 607 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:35,960 As a novelist, Pamuk wanted to understand the people of Turkey, 608 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,720 not just the people of his own class. 609 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:48,120 Normally, the Turkish intellectuals who want to defend secularism, 610 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:53,040 modernity, all the things that they think define themselves, 611 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,800 their approach towards the working class is, they want to educate them, 612 00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:58,720 they want to enlighten them, 613 00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:01,080 they want to show them what's wrong with them. 614 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:04,880 But Pamuk is not like that, Pamuk wants to be like them, 615 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,880 maybe only in his books, but in his books he wants to be like them. 616 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:13,280 SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYS 617 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,960 Something designed by Salvador Dali for Alfred Hitchcock. 618 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:26,920 He wants to imagine their lives in detail. 619 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,760 So, when I met Pamuk, I realised he 620 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,240 had this constant way of questioning. 621 00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:34,160 "How do you spend your day?" 622 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,360 "When does your girlfriend leave the house?" 623 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,280 "When do you start working?" 624 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,280 "What's your favourite hour during the day?" 625 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:43,760 I was like a character to him. 626 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:48,400 And I can imagine him getting excited by a seller on the street or 627 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,360 by a well-digger. 628 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:53,760 That's the Pamuk project. 629 00:43:55,880 --> 00:44:00,960 So he's building a language in which to communicate the grand story 630 00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:06,320 of Turkey to readers who are outside of his class. 631 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,400 In Turkey, books are printed just 2,000 copies, 632 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,720 because that's the readership, 633 00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:15,800 but he wants to be read by 200,000. 634 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,720 How many cigarette butts are here? 635 00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:24,240 4,213 cigarettes. 636 00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:27,680 These are actually smoked by the beloved, 637 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,120 and she was a bit intense and 638 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:33,520 expressed herself through the way she crushed... 639 00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,680 So, the way she stubbed her cigarettes? 640 00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:41,480 Yes, stubbed. Kemal, in the book of The Museum Of Innocence, 641 00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:46,080 falls in love with his distant relative, Fusun, a shop assistant. 642 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,800 They separate, but he obsesses about her for the rest of his life, 643 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,640 collecting every cigarette that she'd smoked. 644 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,400 MATCH IS STRUCK 645 00:44:55,400 --> 00:45:00,520 Kemal not only collected them, also wrote a note about her moods. 646 00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:07,240 That lover's attention to beloved is very much like the novelist's 647 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,440 attention to the world. 648 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,520 Now, here, there are images of Fusun's hand. 649 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:17,640 I shot them, I'm proud to say. 650 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,640 This is my first attempt as a video artist. 651 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:22,920 And did you audition a lot of people...? 652 00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,240 I identify with Kemal. 653 00:45:25,240 --> 00:45:27,720 He falls off from his class. Yeah. 654 00:45:27,720 --> 00:45:31,000 He falls off because of his love story, 655 00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,800 which makes him a bit ridiculous. 656 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:38,920 I fell off my class because I wanted to be an honest writer. 657 00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:45,560 I wrote about my country and then, of course, politics is inevitable. 658 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,960 Is there a sense of guilt, of... 659 00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,920 You were brought up in a privileged environment, 660 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:58,120 so much of your work is reaching out to a different class, to... 661 00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,360 To readers, yeah. 662 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,440 Yes, there was a feeling of guilt 663 00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:06,320 because, exactly as you said, 664 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,600 I came from a privileged family in a very poor country. 665 00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,560 This was strong in me. 666 00:46:14,720 --> 00:46:19,160 The clash with his own class came to a head with his novel Snow. 667 00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,680 It's set in the 1990s in Kars, 668 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:26,000 meaning snow, in the Far East of Turkey. 669 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,400 The religious right was now on the rise. 670 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,440 Snow's main character, Ka, is not unlike Orhan, 671 00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:38,280 but the book tries to get inside the heads of ordinary believers, too. 672 00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,320 Women are committing suicide over being forced 673 00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,560 to remove their headscarves. 674 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,440 My mother said to me, my friends are saying, 675 00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:53,480 "Why do you pay so much attention to the problems of headscarved women?" 676 00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:58,160 The state was not allowing women into universities 677 00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,000 if they were headscarved. 678 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:06,080 65% of women, by nature, by tradition, wear headscarves. 679 00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:11,320 In a way, that was making discrimination for women. 680 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:15,200 And that led to the popularity of Erdogan, 681 00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,480 because he took them to universities. 682 00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,920 I mean, this is very complex... Yes. ..the politics you're talking about. 683 00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:25,080 It was read like you were taking a position. 684 00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:26,920 DOG BARKS 685 00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,480 My character, Ka, wants two things which contradict. 686 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,400 He was out in Europe, 687 00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:36,160 now he wants to belong to Turkey and goes to the poorest parts of Turkey, 688 00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:39,720 just to have a sense of having a community. 689 00:47:39,720 --> 00:47:43,600 He also still cherishes European 690 00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,680 ideals of egalitarianism, 691 00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:51,320 respect for women's rights and, more strongly, secularism, 692 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:55,200 but these ideas definitely contradict in that part of Turkey. 693 00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:01,080 Just four years later, things got even more political for Pamuk. 694 00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,440 SHOUTING 695 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,400 Nationalists were outraged, and Pamuk was charged 696 00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,800 with denigrating Turkishness. 697 00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:38,160 "The case that was opened against me, and the political quandaries in 698 00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,560 "which I then found myself, turned me into a far more political, 699 00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:45,160 "serious and responsible person than I wanted to be." 700 00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,680 Because of your views about what had happened to the Armenians, 701 00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:59,360 you became a target for the nationalists and you went on trial. 702 00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,480 How did you feel about that? It felt bad. I, I confess that it's 703 00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,320 not something that I want to talk about too much. 704 00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:09,320 I don't also want to pose as a victim. 705 00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:13,080 One day, I'll write about these things in a tender, thoughtful way, 706 00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:16,320 but I don't want to shout too much about that. 707 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,600 They were bad days. Thank God I survived. 708 00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,480 Very happy, survived, back at home, 709 00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:26,640 and still operating here, with my bodyguard, but it's OK. 710 00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,280 That's the life, I'm happy to be here. 711 00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,520 The worst disaster is to be an exile, for me. 712 00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:34,800 I knew what it was to be an exile because, for a while, 713 00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,280 I could not return, or I return like a rat, you know, hiding. 714 00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:45,960 THEY SPEAK IN OWN LANGUAGE 715 00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:53,160 The case was dropped, but it resurfaced in 2011, 716 00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:56,920 when Pamuk had to pay compensation to the nationalists who'd complained 717 00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:58,640 against him. 718 00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:09,320 Now the nationalists are helping Erdogan's authoritarian and 719 00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,360 religious party to stay in power. 720 00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:17,560 His message about internal security pours out of every TV set. 721 00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:38,760 Turkey had changed immeasurably since Pamuk started to write. 722 00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:46,120 On the outskirts of Istanbul, green fields had given way to shanty 723 00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:50,320 towns, to house the millions of newcomers from the east. 724 00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:56,800 These in turn were swept away and replaced by high-rises. 725 00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:06,000 "Don't let rich people make you feel ashamed. 726 00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,080 "The only difference between us and them is that they got to Istanbul 727 00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:11,720 "first and started making money before we did. 728 00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,560 "Mevlut saw transmission towers, 729 00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:21,040 "trucks on the asphalt roads and new concrete bridges, 730 00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:26,080 "and read them as signs that the country was growing and developing. 731 00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:28,120 "Istanbul had changed so much 732 00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:31,560 "that his memories now seemed like fairy tales. 733 00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,520 "The city was growing inexorably out of his reach." 734 00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,720 "When the time came for his own one-room house, 735 00:52:13,720 --> 00:52:16,520 "Mevlut felt his heart breaking. 736 00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:19,880 "He observed his whole childhood - the food he'd eaten, 737 00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:23,000 "the homework he'd done, the way things had smelled, 738 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,840 "the sound of his father grunting in his sleep - 739 00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:30,160 "hundreds of thousands of memories all smashed to pieces in a single 740 00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:32,240 "swipe of the bulldozer shovel." 741 00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:45,520 I'm not a political person. 742 00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,920 I look at this texture and try to find beauty in it. 743 00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,040 Walk, walk, walk. 744 00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,480 Look around, enjoy humanity. 745 00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:03,800 But the art of the novel, by definition, is political. 746 00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:08,760 And middle-class writer spends six years to identify 747 00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,360 with a street vendor. 748 00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,760 First, you have to get the details right. 749 00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:18,120 You interview a lot of people. You talk, talk, talk. 750 00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:20,640 I want to see how people live here. 751 00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,320 I was here in this cafe, sitting here, 752 00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:40,640 almost 22 or 23 years ago as we are talking. 753 00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:44,640 These places are intertwined with your memories. 754 00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:48,280 Oh, I was looking at this street, down to see, and I was terribly in 755 00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:50,120 love and so sad. 756 00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:53,600 The next time you look at that view, you remember your sadness. 757 00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:56,800 Or you remember this building or that square 758 00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:59,920 when you learn about some military coup or major incident, 759 00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:03,400 someone drop a bomb there, and you remember that you saw that. 760 00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:08,520 These demolitions are hard to endure because you understand that you're 761 00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:10,600 losing your memories. 762 00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,960 I travel around. I go to China, I go to Korea, I go to India. 763 00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:21,760 They always ask, "So, we also want to keep our heritage and we also 764 00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,640 "want to be modern and prominent in the world. What do we do?" 765 00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:26,200 And there's no... It's the most 766 00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:28,880 popular question and there's no answer. 767 00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,720 The only answer to that - don't be hard on, you know... 768 00:54:31,720 --> 00:54:33,960 pay respect to both sides. Yeah. 769 00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,480 CLOCK TICKS 770 00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,360 CROW CAWS 771 00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:02,640 "He was uncomfortable talking about sex, but not about kissing. 772 00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:06,120 "During one of our late-night raki drinking sessions, 773 00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:09,680 "I found out that he sometimes associated kissing with visions of a 774 00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:13,640 "mother seagull putting food into her impatient chicks' open beaks." 775 00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:16,840 WINGS FLUTTER "On one of these nights, 776 00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:20,640 "he had me smell the Spleen perfume Sybil had bought in Paris. 777 00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:23,360 "It smelled of night-time and eternity." 778 00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:29,080 VENDOR CALLS OUT IN OWN LANGUAGE 779 00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,760 "The first thing Mevlut would do when he stepped out into the cold 780 00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:41,400 "was shoulder the yoke he'd been using for 25 years to carry his 781 00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:43,840 "plastic jugs of boza - 782 00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:46,680 "the traditional drink made of fermented wheat. 783 00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:54,480 "Like a soldier about to step on to the battlefield, 784 00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:56,960 "he would set out on his night's endless walk. 785 00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,800 "He would shout, 'Boza!' 786 00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:07,720 "and feel he was really calling out to his own past." 787 00:56:07,720 --> 00:56:10,120 THEY SPEAK IN OWN LANGUAGE 788 00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:28,120 VENDOR CALLS OUT IN OWN LANGUAGE 789 00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:45,640 Oh, my God! 790 00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,680 I'm happy with friends and I'm writing what they talk about. 791 00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:51,480 For example, "What do you expect from life?" 792 00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:55,240 Not necessarily these people are talking. Yeah. If you don't do these 793 00:56:55,240 --> 00:56:59,000 beautiful things in this country, you get mad. 794 00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,480 Erm... You pick up. 795 00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:05,480 OK, that green one. That green one. Why, why green? 796 00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:09,840 No idea. Wow. This is, for example, ideas for The Red-Haired Woman. 797 00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:14,200 Ah! You know, I had an interview with a well-digger, 798 00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:18,120 and it tells a lot that went into the novel. 799 00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:21,360 And then it's sort of a shy self-portrait. 800 00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:23,800 Mmm. You don't look too happy, though. 801 00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:26,120 Yes. OK, this is... 802 00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:28,480 Yeah, this is myself. 803 00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:33,520 My name in the family was Crow, because I was skinny. 804 00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:38,360 The desire to paint never, never stopped. 805 00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:42,280 Many years later, I resurrected the painter in me. 806 00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,360 LIVELY PIANO MUSIC PLAYS I like that one. 807 00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:49,760 I am happier when I paint, when I draw. 808 00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:56,280 My mood when I paint is the mood of the guy who's singing when he's 809 00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:58,320 having his shower. ALAN LAUGHS 810 00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:01,920 While, when I write, it's more like playing chess. 811 00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:05,640 You love looking at the world from above. 812 00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:08,240 Above, or looking at the landscapes. 813 00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:11,040 The landscape from my desk. 814 00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:27,400 LAUGHTER 815 00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:30,840 And this is the lady you have been seeing around. 816 00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:34,560 As she is now scolding me. She's scolding you? 817 00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:37,720 Yes! Again, the same lady. LAUGHTER 818 00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:42,120 Asli is reading. 819 00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:47,240 Once, she was exactly reading like this. LAUGHTER 820 00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:52,720 In some restaurants in Istanbul, they show you the fish first, 821 00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:55,200 before cooking it! LAUGHTER 822 00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:57,200 Anyway, I'm happy I'm showing them. 823 00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:01,920 What did you think when you saw his notebooks? 824 00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:03,960 So creative. 825 00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:09,120 He absorbs, and what he absorbs, he would like to express it on paper. 826 00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:12,280 It makes him so happy, 827 00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:17,480 so seeing him like a child, playing with his notebooks, pens, colours, 828 00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,240 he's amazing. 829 00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:25,320 I feel embarrassed because I feel as if I'm an autistic child... 830 00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:28,800 No, no. ..and the mother can't stop talking about me! LAUGHTER 831 00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:32,800 It makes him very happy, really. They're precious. 832 00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:36,840 But she's always advising me, "Don't publish your diaries." 833 00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:40,880 And, "Darling, only the pictures, but leave the text." 834 00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:46,160 THEY PERFORM SONG IN OWN LANGUAGE 835 01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:04,720 The history of my private life is, in a way, 836 01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:08,680 that crowd I enjoyed when I was eight years old, ten years old. 837 01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:13,680 50 years later, everyone was alone, 838 01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,000 Old people died. 839 01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:20,480 My uncles, father, everyone had business fights with each other. 840 01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:25,760 That crowd is a sort of a nostalgia for me. 841 01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:27,920 They disappeared. 842 01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:31,480 That big umbrella of a big house, 843 01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:33,720 where everyone gets together, 844 01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:36,360 all that disappeared. 845 01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:38,200 It's a sadness in my life. 846 01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:41,080 THEY REACH A CRESCENDO 847 01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:46,960 HE SPEAKS IN OWN LANGUAGE 848 01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:09,280 This is a regular visit to my mother's, 849 01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:11,720 which I do on every Sunday, 850 01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:16,680 and then we were going to take her out to dinner, the three of us. 851 01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:20,000 THEY SPEAK IN OWN LANGUAGE 852 01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:29,760 This teapot is probably 60 years 853 01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:33,240 old, like everything my mother is using. 854 01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:37,320 Very old kitchen utensils. 855 01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,080 Pottery in my mother's kitchen 856 01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:42,120 actually should go to a museum. 857 01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:45,880 THEY SPEAK IN OWN LANGUAGE 858 01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:51,120 What was he like as a little boy, this one? 859 01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:53,320 He was very naughty, 860 01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:56,360 but he was scolded, 861 01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:59,880 And then when he was 16, 862 01:01:59,880 --> 01:02:05,120 he said, "You are scolding me all the time and you don't scold my brother." 863 01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:08,200 Ah. Yeah. Ah-ha. He was jealous of his brother? 864 01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:10,160 Very jealous of his brother. 865 01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:18,320 This cupboard is the spirit of The Museum Of Innocence. 866 01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:23,080 I spent a lot of time in my childhood looking at this swan now 867 01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:26,040 that is exiled and put in a prison. 868 01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:28,680 I don't know what her mistake is! 869 01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:30,720 But, you know, I was that kind of child. 870 01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:34,000 Impersonating them and making them speak like, 871 01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:37,440 in My Name Is Red, where the objects' colours speak. 872 01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:40,840 I live today to remember it tomorrow. 873 01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:43,520 That's why I'm keeping objects, that's why I'm writing. 874 01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:45,720 I'm a graphomaniac, in a way. 875 01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:52,960 Like me, every Sunday, my father used to visit his mother, 876 01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:55,040 but he would not take her out to 877 01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:58,560 dinner because she would rarely leave the house. 878 01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:01,200 The absence of my father, 879 01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:04,680 not having a Freudian father who would dominate you, 880 01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:07,440 a sort of a liberation you may get 881 01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:10,520 if your mind is not oppressed too much. 882 01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:17,240 The spirit of The Red-Haired Woman is based on lack of my father. 883 01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:22,760 The book secretly argues that a lack of father, a lack of a centre, 884 01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:26,440 a lack of power, a lack of an 885 01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:30,040 authoritarian ruler also confuses us. 886 01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:33,480 Fathers lend us this liberating 887 01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:37,280 feeling that you don't have to make 888 01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:40,400 the main decisions, you just follow his footsteps. 889 01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:43,360 I am happy that I did not follow 890 01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:46,040 anyone's footsteps in my life. 891 01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:54,600 "Soldiers had first come for him the night after the military coup. 892 01:03:57,080 --> 01:03:59,280 "My mother was devastated. 893 01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:03,120 "She told me that my father was a hero, that I should be proud of him. 894 01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:09,600 "When my father again disappeared, seven or eight years after that, 895 01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:13,720 "it was different. Upon his return, after almost two years, 896 01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:16,560 "my mother seemed not to care that he had been taken away, 897 01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:18,800 "interrogated and tortured. 898 01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:21,040 "She was furious at him. 899 01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:22,680 " 'What did he expect?' she said. 900 01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:27,520 "So, too, after my father's final disappearance, 901 01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:29,560 "my mother seemed resigned. 902 01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:32,400 "That's what made me think my father didn't always disappear 903 01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:34,680 "for the same reason. 904 01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:37,640 "But what is this thing we call thinking anyway?" 905 01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:48,440 We have now a very authoritarian system. 906 01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:51,600 Democracy is disappearing. 907 01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:55,160 My friends who are writers, novelists, 908 01:04:55,160 --> 01:04:57,800 are in jail, not because of their novels - yes, 909 01:04:57,800 --> 01:04:59,880 because of their journalism. 910 01:04:59,880 --> 01:05:02,440 I am very much upset about that. 911 01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:06,400 Our political problems are not very sophisticated. 912 01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:11,560 50,000 people are in jail, 150 journalists are in jail. 913 01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:16,160 You don't need too much sophisticated theory to feel angry 914 01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:21,000 about that and also feel guilty at home, writing your fancy novels. 915 01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:23,960 That's the only thing I can do. 916 01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:30,680 Turkey is a dangerous place to be a writer, 917 01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:33,480 but it can have its riches. 918 01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:01,000 You might have thought that, for Orhan Pamuk, this would be a vision 919 01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:05,960 of Hell, but once again the strangeness of his mind surprises. 920 01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:11,520 I feel so privileged in the history of humanity. 921 01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:14,840 Are there many writers who see, in 60 years, 922 01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:18,680 their city grow from two million to 17 million? 923 01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:24,520 And all that change and change and change. 924 01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:28,600 And I was inside all the time. 925 01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:32,840 Human anxiety about change and desire about change, 926 01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:38,000 conservatism and modernism, and destroying, destroying, 927 01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:41,800 destroying, and making and making and making, 928 01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:44,240 and I was chronicling. 929 01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:47,080 I have stuck to this subject and write about it, write about it, 930 01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:49,120 write about it. 931 01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:52,560 They all think that my Istanbul is nostalgic Istanbul. 932 01:06:52,560 --> 01:06:56,920 Yes, I wrote those early books, but now I love this subject. 933 01:06:56,920 --> 01:06:59,480 I want to explore it. 934 01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:01,480 I want to see the human side of it. 935 01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:03,520 This is what I like now. 936 01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:06,600 TRADITIONAL MUSIC PLAYS