1 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,200 "My bone cleaveth to my skin 2 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,000 "and to my flesh, 3 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:19,600 "and I am escaped with the skin of my teeth. 4 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,360 "Have pity upon me. 5 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:26,840 "Have pity upon me, O ye, my friends, 6 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,000 "for the hand of God has touched me." 7 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:07,520 Tell me, how has your relationship changed over the years? 8 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:11,640 Well, it has changed a lot. 9 00:02:11,640 --> 00:02:14,040 It has changed a lot. 10 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,640 Yes. And for the better. 11 00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:17,960 Yep. 12 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,320 Well... 13 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:28,760 So... I... I... 14 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,360 ..was just rather self-centred, 15 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,880 and though I was very fond of Unity, always... 16 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,640 ..I don't think I was very kind to her. 17 00:02:40,640 --> 00:02:45,080 In fact, I know I wasn't. Well, you were a bit jealous, really. 18 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:49,840 You were a bit jealous, really. I don't think I was jealous, actually. 19 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,440 Oh, yes, definitely, Shirin. I experienced... I don't think... 20 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:54,920 I experienced jealousy from you. 21 00:02:54,920 --> 00:02:57,040 You felt jealous of...? No! 22 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,880 I experienced it from you! 23 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:01,800 You experienced... You were jealous of me. Yes. 24 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,000 I'm not criticising you... No, no. 25 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,120 ..I'm simply making a statement. Yeah. 26 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,760 You were experiencing the fact that I was jealous. 27 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,080 Well, it seemed to be... Yeah. 28 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,000 ..which wasn't altogether surprising, really, 29 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,960 under the circumstances. 30 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,840 I don't, erm, remember being jealous... 31 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,480 No. ..of Unity, but... 32 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,400 ..who knows? I guess I was. 33 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,240 Of course, it's strange... 34 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,600 Strange? That was taken out the washing machine. 35 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,000 Right. Anyway, let's go. Yes. Not much to see. 36 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,280 Have you taken out of the cupboards? 37 00:04:18,280 --> 00:04:20,640 Did you open the cupboards and take what was there? 38 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,960 Everything's gone out of the cupboards, Mum. OK. 39 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,440 There were those big dishes in there. Yeah, they've all gone. 40 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,120 They've all been safely packed. Oh, good. 41 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:34,520 Oh, it's changed so much, because Mum has forgiven Shirin. 42 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,640 Shirin can be herself, and apart from being a little bit fussy, 43 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,120 which annoys Mum... She says, "Oh, Shirin, stop fussing!" 44 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,960 But it takes time in any relationship 45 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,320 for anyone to learn, work out, understand. 46 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,920 So, how's it going to be in Wales, now? 47 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,560 It'll be all right. If she annoys me, I'll tell her so, 48 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,720 and if I annoy her, she'll tell me so. 49 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,760 Do you think you've got a more honest relationship now? 50 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,920 Oh, yes. I think so, don't you? 51 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,280 Hmm? I think we have a more honest relationship now. 52 00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:15,800 Oh, yes. I think so. 53 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,240 Oh, yes. 54 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,280 She's got her friends and her church 55 00:05:21,280 --> 00:05:24,320 and her various things down there. 56 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,320 Well, I'm not frightened, now. 57 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,840 I'm not frightened of... 58 00:05:32,840 --> 00:05:35,040 ..making things worse, you know? 59 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:41,160 I was putting my foot in it thoroughly, beforehand. 60 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,960 Well, that's his painting palette, presumably. 61 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,200 Yes. 62 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,920 It looks very big. Yes. 63 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,560 Can you show me how he would hold it? 64 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,440 Well, you hold it with your thumbs right here... I've never held one. 65 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,200 ..like that. Yes. 66 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,600 The thumb goes through there. Yeah. 67 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,040 ARCHIVE FOOTAGE: This is an art class in a little village school. 68 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:44,400 It's a rather special day because a real artist lives in the village, 69 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,880 and today, he's come to join the class. 70 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:52,720 The artist is Stanley Spencer. 71 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:56,480 The school is at Cookham, 72 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:00,120 which is a quiet and pretty English village on the River Thames, 73 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,240 and not far from Windsor Castle in London. 74 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,840 Stanley Spencer was born in Cookham and went to school there himself. 75 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,520 He has lived in the village for most of his life. 76 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:14,840 His house is just opposite the school 77 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:16,960 and looks out across the playground. 78 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:23,560 Stanley Spencer's work was first shown in London in 1912, 79 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:25,960 and he's been painting hard ever since. 80 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,840 Now, he is one of the best-known artists in Britain. 81 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,880 His drawings and portraits are admired by many people. 82 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,120 His paintings hang in most of the public galleries in Britain. 83 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,800 He has become one of the most individual artistic personalities 84 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:43,880 of his time. 85 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,680 STANLEY: You see, everything has a sort of double meaning for me. 86 00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:06,160 There's the ordinary, everyday meaning of things, 87 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:10,880 utilitarian meaning, and the imaginary meaning about it all. 88 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,680 ARCHIVE FOOTAGE: From the beginning, the events and prophecies 89 00:09:29,680 --> 00:09:32,120 of the Bible have been, for him, 90 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:35,400 the most natural and exciting of all subjects. 91 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:42,520 In his art, they come to life in vivid scenes, 92 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:46,080 full of the sense of wonder and a new awareness. 93 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,920 One of the... 94 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,280 One of the things of which we both, 95 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:57,240 my dad and me, 96 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,360 thoroughly agree is that 97 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,560 religion is saying ta to God. 98 00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:06,520 That is what he used to say. 99 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:10,120 He said, "Religion is saying ta to God." 100 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:11,960 What did he mean by that? 101 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:13,600 Thank you! 102 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:20,920 So, thank you for nature and life and everything? 103 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,960 Music, people, situations. 104 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,760 And... 105 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,600 ..of course Burghclerers used "ta". 106 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,560 There's something so 107 00:10:37,560 --> 00:10:41,960 inspiring about Burghclerers. 108 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:43,840 It's a... 109 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,480 You know, one says inspiring, which lifts you up, 110 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,720 but it also knocks you over. 111 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:50,880 STANLEY: The pictures in this chapel 112 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:54,040 really divide into two major experiences 113 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:57,200 that I had in the 1914 war. 114 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,280 You see in the top picture there, 115 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,760 you can just see a bit of the Macedonian scene. 116 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:07,760 One was Macedonia scene, and the other was Bristol Hospital scenes. 117 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:10,800 The arch pictures and the ones below 118 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,080 are, more or less all of them, 119 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,240 Bristol Hospital scenes. 120 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:17,760 The one above is Macedonia. 121 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,840 And here we have the big altar 122 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,520 resurrection picture, which is also Macedonia. 123 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,680 When I did this altar piece, 124 00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:35,080 Resurrection, I wanted it to be 125 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:40,120 in Macedonia, I wanted it to be in a particular place that I remembered. 126 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:45,240 And I felt that all that I hoped for 127 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:49,040 of all the coming back home and everything, 128 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,160 could be, so to speak, celebrated there. 129 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,200 This picture speaks to me 130 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,080 more than many sermons, because, 131 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,120 you know, his main interest 132 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:01,640 was in resurrection and redemption. 133 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:06,640 Well, you couldn't have a greater example of redemption 134 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,440 than those two hands. 135 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,800 It's just incredible. 136 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,920 And actually, it was when they were still... 137 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,840 ..when they were courting, when our parents were courting. 138 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,880 And Mummy, bless her, posed as one of the figures 139 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:28,600 lying on the floor. 140 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,920 And also as Christ... 141 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,120 There's actually a drawing of her 142 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,360 posing for this picture. 143 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,680 Well, the great difference 144 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,240 between our parents 145 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,680 was that they wanted no difference. 146 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:15,000 They wanted something you can never get in this world... 147 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,280 ..perfect. 148 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:21,320 You know, complete unity. 149 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,360 They got Unity, of course, the child, 150 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,640 but they couldn't really get this unity. 151 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,800 It was a... 152 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,200 It was in one way... 153 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,840 ..the same philosophy, 154 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,600 and in another quite different. 155 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,000 A different approach. 156 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:50,840 They... 157 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,640 They were, as I think someone said, 158 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,920 "these God-besotted Spencers". 159 00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:02,080 Something of that sort. 160 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,520 Well, my mother's family moved 161 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,560 from Oxford to Hampstead, 162 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,960 and I think my grandmother bought number 47... 163 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,880 ..and that's where I was born, in the top bedroom. 164 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,920 Shirin was born at the Vale of Health Hotel 165 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:06,840 on Hampstead Heath, 166 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:10,600 and I was born up there. 167 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,000 Do you have fond memories of it? 168 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,680 Oh, yes, very fond. I loved it. 169 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:18,960 It was my beloved home and garden. 170 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:20,280 I really loved it. 171 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,160 "Season of mists and mellow fruitfulness 172 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,840 "Close bosom-friend of the maturing sun 173 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,480 "Conspiring with him how to load and bless 174 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:59,560 "With fruit the vines that round the thatch-eves run." 175 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,280 I can't remember the middle bit. 176 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,000 And then... It has not often seen me... 177 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:12,120 Sorry, dear? What about, "Autumn sitting beside thee"? 178 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,280 "Oft how I've seen thee by thy store 179 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:20,120 "Thy hair soft-lifted by the winnowing wind 180 00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:23,920 "Or by a half-reap'd furrow sound asleep." 181 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,600 And something about watching the last oozing, hours by hours. 182 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,600 A German friend of mine was very put out. 183 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:34,920 He said, "Who's got time to do that?" 184 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,720 And I forgot to tell him that it was autumn, not a human. 185 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,360 THEY LAUGH 186 00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:41,520 Autumn stays a long time. Yes, yes. 187 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,040 When things got difficult in Cookham, 188 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,920 my mother came up to Hampstead, 189 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:13,600 with Unity as a really little child, 190 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,200 and she had a small room. 191 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:25,160 There was room for the bed, there was room for a cot. 192 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,120 It wasn't a big room for another child, 193 00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:32,080 and there wasn't room in any other room. 194 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:38,600 So it was best if I went to stay 195 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,400 with someone local 196 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,160 who was related, even distantly. 197 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:53,800 And this was Mrs Harter, who was the mother of Gwen Carline. 198 00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:58,720 My mother's family were Carlines. 199 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:03,760 This is Gwen Carline, the widow of my mother's brother Sidney. 200 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,520 So I went there, I didn't know how long I was going to stay. 201 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,960 But I went there when I was getting on for six. 202 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,480 LANGUID PIANO MUSIC 203 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,720 Oh, well, when I was born, everything... 204 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:35,320 I seemed to disrupt everything, 205 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:39,840 cos Mrs Harter said she'd look after Shirin. 206 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,200 She was...the connection she had was her daughter had married Sidney. 207 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,160 She said she'd look after Shirin, 208 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,080 but she never returned her. 209 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:53,440 And Mummy didn't have the courage to ask for her back. 210 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,320 So it was pretty awful, really. 211 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,760 Then, when the War came, I was sent off, taken to Epsom, 212 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:02,600 which was ridiculous, 213 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,920 because Epsom was on the flight path from Croydon Aerodrome to the coast. 214 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,240 So that was a bit stupid, and deprived Mummy 215 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:12,920 of both her daughters. 216 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,400 All she ever wanted was to have two little girls, 217 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,280 and Daddy and I discovered... 218 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:24,000 I also thought that maybe this is partly what caused her to go mad. 219 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,200 That her family was split up and taken from her? Yes! 220 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,840 No need. No need at all. 221 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,920 I mean, if she couldn't have coped, 222 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,240 she could've got a nanny in to help. 223 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,840 Already had Miss Swiss Alps. 224 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,600 SHE CHUCKLES 225 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,400 This is Cookham village. 226 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,800 The River Thames passes behind it in a series of gentle bends 227 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,800 which enclose flat meadows lined with trees. 228 00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:57,680 By the river and amongst the trees, there is a peaceful church 229 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,160 and churchyard. 230 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:05,880 There are none of Spencer's paintings inside, 231 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,120 but this church is an important factor in Spencer's mind. 232 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:25,040 The village gardens are shaded by flowering shrubs and magnolias, 233 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,320 or by tall, black cedar trees. 234 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:33,240 It's a quiet place with a life and an atmosphere of its own, where 235 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,280 everyone knows everyone else and where life goes at its own 236 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,000 unhurried pace. 237 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,720 Cookham is a kind of newspaper to me, 238 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,960 through the pages of which I am anxiously 239 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,320 glancing in the hope of finding something about myself in it. 240 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,680 On the whole, it's rather satisfactory. 241 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,440 I seem to find here and there bits, and it sort of 242 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,720 writes me up very well. But you understand what I mean - 243 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,240 that I find something of myself all over the place. 244 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,120 LANGUID PIANO MUSIC 245 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,520 She made a beeline for Daddy because he got a bit of money. 246 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,760 Do you think she was after the money? 247 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,240 Oh, yes. Oh, yes. 248 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,240 Well, she was a lesbian, she wasn't interested in Daddy. 249 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,640 Have you got any memories of her, even though you were very young? 250 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,200 Patricia? Yeah. I met her once when I was about nine. 251 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,800 And being terribly stupid and gullible... She came in rather 252 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:28,880 smarmy, and so I shook hands with her, but Shirin fortunately 253 00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:34,480 didn't, cos she was much more shrewd and perceptive than I was. 254 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,480 She had written a letter to Mummy... 255 00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:48,400 ..saying, "Dorothy and I are going on in advance, 256 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:53,680 "and Stanley is finishing a landscape. 257 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:58,720 "And if you could come down and see to your own things, 258 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:03,680 "you know, collect anything that belongs to you, 259 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:08,000 "and then come on with Stanley, if you like." 260 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,480 On the honeymoon? To the honeymoon! 261 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,240 Oh, yes. Oh, yes. 262 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:19,400 I mean... 263 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,000 And, of course... 264 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,160 I mean, she would have known what would have happened, 265 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,800 guessed what would have happened 266 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:33,800 when Mummy came down to Cookham and there was Daddy, and he was 267 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:39,000 so delighted to see her and it was, you know, 268 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,520 it was almost as if nothing had happened. 269 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,520 Well, you know, in a way, he was...she'd... 270 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:52,080 ..have no letters from him at all, and... 271 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,640 ..and so... 272 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,560 you know, to be greeted like that... 273 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,800 And, of course, they committed adultery. 274 00:27:06,360 --> 00:27:10,640 It's a mad, mad situation! 275 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,280 Because Mummy never felt herself... 276 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,760 ..not to be his wife, really. 277 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,600 But she was willing to do this. 278 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:29,600 She did, she did go down and she did sign the divorce thing. 279 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,400 You know, she'd never, ever 280 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,680 thought she was going to be divorced. 281 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,240 LANGUID PIANO MUSIC 282 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,040 "You deserve to be cursed. 283 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:16,040 "And there is no doubt that you will be, 284 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,320 "and sooner than you would like. 285 00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:26,200 "It is not possible that such infinite cruelty could fail 286 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:33,480 "to surround, eventually, your own life. 287 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:41,040 "Where the hurt-bearing atmosphere... 288 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:45,840 "Some tragedy will certainly come... 289 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,200 "..that you would do anything to prevent. 290 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:58,560 "You cannot entertain a devil and trust him 291 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,600 "not to turn round on yourself 292 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,640 "and destroy you. 293 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:13,120 "Your cruelty will surround your life as it has already 294 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,640 "entered into your Academy pictures... 295 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:26,160 "..the compositions, but more especially, the shapes 296 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,040 "are cruel shapes. 297 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:36,640 "A sensitive person would be knocked backwards 298 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,120 "and fly from those pictures. 299 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,840 "You deserve to have a murdered 300 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:51,920 "person tied to your back forever, 301 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:58,760 "in such a manner that you can never escape from it." 302 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:13,000 MUSIC: Let Yourself Go by Ginger Rogers 303 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,240 # Come, get together 304 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,440 # Let the dance floor feel your leather 305 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,560 # Step as lightly as a feather 306 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,920 # Let yourself go 307 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,240 # Come, hit the timber 308 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,720 # Loosen up and start to limber 309 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,760 # Can't you hear that hot marimba? 310 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,080 # Let yourself go 311 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,240 # Let yourself go, relax 312 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,840 # And let yourself go, relax 313 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,240 # You've got yourself tied up in a knot 314 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,680 # The night is cold but the music's hot, so 315 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,000 # Come, cuddle closer 316 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,480 # Don't you dare to answer, "No, sir" 317 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,560 # Butcher, baker, clerk and grocer 318 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,840 # Let yourself go. # 319 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,880 And this home, for you, has been a happy place? Oh, yes. 320 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,760 And so... Not enough visitors, but it's really nice. Yeah. 321 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,680 And so we're wanting now to just thank God for your time here? 322 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,000 Yes, yes. And also to pray for you as you're moving home and going to 323 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,120 Wales. How would you say you're feeling about moving to Wales? 324 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,760 I'm feeling sort of strange. Yeah. 325 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,520 A bit strange. But I think it'll be all right. 326 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,160 Yeah. And I... 327 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,080 My sister will be there, that's partly the reason. 328 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,240 But she said she hoped she wasn't dragging me to Cowbridge. 329 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,360 Well, she is dragging me... LAUGHTER 330 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,320 ..but it's quite a nice drag. 331 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,880 This is from Ephesians 3. 332 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,480 Unity, I pray that, out of God's glorious riches, 333 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:32,440 He may strengthen you with power through His spirit in your inner 334 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,520 being, so that Christ may dwell in your heart through faith. 335 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,760 And, Heavenly Father, thank you for Unity. 336 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,160 Thank you for this house that she has lived in. 337 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,200 Thank you for the rest she's enjoyed here. 338 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,680 Thank you for the laughter that's been had here. 339 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,280 Thank you that this place has been a home of happiness 340 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,360 and contentment and creativity 341 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,960 and hope. 342 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,040 And so, Father, thank you that in the Lord Jesus, 343 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,920 as Unity moves to Wales, thank you that you will continue to 344 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:09,960 be with her, that you will be at home in her. 345 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,840 the joy of the Lord as her strength. 346 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,800 That she might know the peace of the Lord in her heart. 347 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:26,840 And that she might know the love of the Lord Jesus at her right hand. 348 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:31,360 And we pray this in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. 349 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:37,200 You're very brave... Am I? ..starting a new house... 350 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,080 Oh, I don't know. 351 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,320 I suppose... Well... 352 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,280 ..life's got to be lived. 353 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:52,320 LANGUID PIANO MUSIC 354 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:56,000 In this painting of Hilda, Unity and Dolls, 355 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,800 my mother's in the background and I'm in the foreground... 356 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,120 ..and I've got... 357 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,280 I'm holding Golden Slumber Sonia Rose in my arms. 358 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,400 Here she is. 359 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,000 Here's little Sonia Rose, looking a bit... 360 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,240 ..a little bit sort of... 361 00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:16,520 I don't know what, quite, but... 362 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,560 ..there she is. 363 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:20,800 And what's her full name? 364 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,040 Golden Slumber Sonia Rose. 365 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,560 And did you name her? I did, certainly. 366 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,400 Oh, yes. 367 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,720 Originally, she had black hair, but 368 00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:37,320 because I cut it, then she had different coloured... 369 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:38,640 ..hair. 370 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,280 There she is, bless her. 371 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,480 She's a pretty little thing, isn't she? Beautiful. 372 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,120 There you are, Sonia Rose. You go back in there, dear. 373 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,000 Whoops. 374 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,600 Oh. There we are. 375 00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:13,440 Mummy doesn't look very happy. 376 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,240 I'm just kind of ordinary, I suppose. 377 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,240 Is this at a time of the family breaking up? 378 00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:23,120 Oh, yes. 379 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,160 I think the family had. 380 00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:31,760 In 1937, Minnehaha got left a house in Epsom... 381 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:39,000 ..which had been her childhood home. I mean, Epsom itself. 382 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,840 Big house. 383 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:45,440 And so she moved there, together with me. 384 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,280 So you can imagine how I... 385 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,360 ..I missed them. 386 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,960 I missed Unity and... 387 00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,920 ..my mother and my father. 388 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:05,960 I hadn't seen my father, actually, since I was about six. 389 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,800 I didn't see him much, no. 390 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,880 You know, very seldom. 391 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:19,000 He...you know, he did keep in touch with Mummy, 392 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,560 and of course with Unity, because she was there. 393 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,480 But, no, I didn't. 394 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:30,480 And then...but being in Epsom meant that I wasn't in Hampstead, 395 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:35,640 so I wasn't near my mother, couldn't be at any meetings that there were. 396 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,640 Did you feel very lonely? 397 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:43,960 I did feel... 398 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,920 I suppose... 399 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,360 ..in a way, I felt exiled. 400 00:37:52,720 --> 00:37:54,800 I wasn't all that lonely - 401 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:59,840 I had nice friends, and Minnehaha and Gwen were very kind to me. 402 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:03,080 I mean, I got very naughty and got punished a bit, 403 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:04,520 but nothing much. 404 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,600 But, no, I... 405 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,600 ..I just missed them very much. 406 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:17,240 # Oh, how amiable are thy dwellings 407 00:38:17,240 --> 00:38:21,800 # Thou Lord of hosts 408 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,800 # My soul has a desire and longing 409 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:30,040 # To enter into the court of the Lord 410 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:34,800 # Ha-na-na-na-na, la-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee. # 411 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,600 I can't remember the rest, but in the end, it says... 412 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:41,960 # I'd rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God 413 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,400 # Than dwell in the tents of the ungodly. # 414 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,360 I love this bit. 415 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,840 "I'd rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than 416 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,680 "dwell in the tents of the ungodly." 417 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,520 Poof! Prrah! Posh! Poof! SHE LAUGHS 418 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,640 LANGUID PIANO MUSIC 419 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,240 I remember my mother being very... 420 00:39:27,240 --> 00:39:30,200 Well, she was in bed and it was 11 o'clock in the morning, 421 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,640 and she was depressed. 422 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:37,640 And suddenly she rose up in bed and stretched a hand out in front of her 423 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,720 and said, "I hate him. I hate him." 424 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,920 Well... 425 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,760 ..it was tragic. 426 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,160 It was appalling. 427 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,840 It was cruel...and... 428 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,560 ..it was so unjust. 429 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,520 The way he was behaving. 430 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,080 But I'm afraid at that time... 431 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,320 ..he felt that, in a sense, 432 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:23,360 as an artist, as a genius, he could do anything. 433 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,040 "I will go for a walk through Cookham churchyard. 434 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,320 "I will walk along the path which runs under the hedge. 435 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:41,720 "I do so and pause to look at a tombstone which rises 436 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:47,200 "out of the midst of a small privet hedge which grows over the grave 437 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,160 "and is railed round with iron railings. 438 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,760 "A little to the right is a simple mound, 439 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:01,800 "guarded at either end by two small firs. 440 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,440 "Both are upright and elliptical in shape. 441 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:11,520 "I return to our house and put it down on paper. 442 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:16,840 "I think still more hopefully about the resurrection. 443 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:23,400 "I go to supper, not oversatisfied with the evening's thought, 444 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:28,840 "but know that tomorrow will see the light. 445 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:33,920 "Tomorrow, in my flesh, I shall see God." 446 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:43,360 Unity, why do you think Shirin was jealous of you? 447 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,640 Well, I was four and a half years younger than her 448 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:53,680 and that is a very difficult age gap for a child to tolerate, apparently. 449 00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,360 Do you think it was anything to do with the fact 450 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,480 that you were with your mother? 451 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:05,440 Probably. Could be. And Shirin was with Mrs...? Could well be. 452 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:11,120 Mrs Harter... She wasn't kind to my mother. 453 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:17,480 You know, I mean, all my mother ever wanted was to have two little girls 454 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,440 and Minnehaha virtually commandeered us. 455 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:26,920 And it's not surprising, and I think Daddy and I agree, 456 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:31,120 it's not surprising that Mummy became a bit mentally ill 457 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:35,560 and said that Mrs Harter was coming to murder everybody. 458 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,920 I think probably Mummy wanted to murder Mrs Harter. 459 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,200 Well, we... 460 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,840 For years, I didn't understand... 461 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:53,000 ..erm, what Unity was trying to say to me. 462 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:54,960 Why not? And... Why not? 463 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:56,560 She was saying... Why not? 464 00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:57,760 Hmm? Why not? 465 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:03,120 Well, I didn't have the capacity to understand that... 466 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:04,920 What? It wasn't... 467 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,200 Well, because you'd say, "You know." 468 00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:13,440 Well, you did know, Shirin, and you pretended you didn't. I didn't know. 469 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:17,760 No, a lot of the time you did. No, I didn't actually know 470 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,760 but that was because of... 471 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,680 ..my own... 472 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:33,880 ..lack of knowledge, and lack of knowledge of myself and... 473 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:37,000 What I really need is integrity. 474 00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:43,120 That's what is really essential, 475 00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,280 because it is... 476 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:51,720 ..being honest with yourself, with other people, and... 477 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,440 I've always valued other people. 478 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:03,040 I've had great love for other people, but I haven't always... 479 00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:09,120 ..understood because I didn't understand myself, you know? 480 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:15,720 And I feel, in a way, 481 00:44:15,720 --> 00:44:19,080 I'm discovering a bit about integrity. 482 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:23,800 Rather late. 483 00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:25,760 But better late than never. 484 00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:55,200 My father was very musical. 485 00:44:55,200 --> 00:45:00,080 He came from a family where everyone played an instrument. 486 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:11,880 He used to say that Beethoven was like humanity striving for heaven 487 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,120 and Bach WAS heaven. 488 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:24,680 Straighten the piano up on three. 489 00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:26,720 Point the piano that way. 490 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,240 Cup of tea? Hurray! 491 00:45:58,280 --> 00:45:59,800 Which way up is it going in? 492 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:06,560 SHE PLAYS: God Save The Queen 493 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:08,960 LAUGHTER 494 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,080 Shirin has a real network of friends here, 495 00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,520 an amazing network of friends, and her church, and she's made 496 00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:02,520 a real home, and she's still active in her village and her community. 497 00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:04,440 Mum has friends in London 498 00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,760 but she's not active with them in the way Shirin is. 499 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:11,360 If I've got to look after both of them, or provide care, or... 500 00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,840 ..whatever way, to get care for both of them, in the future, 501 00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:19,520 financially, it's a no-brainer to bring Mum here than to take Shirin 502 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,880 to London, and Mum agreed, and so we've done it, 503 00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:27,360 and so far, it seems to be, it feels to be the right decision. 504 00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,840 And Shirin and Mum are getting so close, 505 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,800 and as I said, Shirin's never had, since she was four... 506 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,400 I know we've asked and talked about them living together, 507 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:41,520 but living together unconditionally in a happy space, 508 00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:43,240 this is the first time. 509 00:47:43,240 --> 00:47:45,760 And they are happy together, and that's wonderful. 510 00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,040 Tell us about this painting. 511 00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:06,080 Well, it's packing up our trunks at the end of term 512 00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:09,720 to go home for the holidays. 513 00:49:09,720 --> 00:49:11,680 And... 514 00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,240 ..that's about it, really. 515 00:49:17,240 --> 00:49:20,480 Are you self-taught? You said you had to work it all out for yourself. 516 00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,240 Oh, yes, I hadn't been to art school. 517 00:49:23,240 --> 00:49:26,240 I mean, we had a good art teacher at school 518 00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:27,840 but I hadn't been to art school. 519 00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:41,520 "Oh, how I long to paint. 520 00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:47,560 "A man told me that Malta possesses many old churches 521 00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:49,600 "full of frescoes 522 00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:53,720 "and one in particular called the church of St Paul, 523 00:49:53,720 --> 00:49:57,320 "which contains the life of St Paul on its walls. 524 00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:03,080 "When this man told me this, I began to long. 525 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:07,360 "I couldn't help thinking what a glorious thing it was to be 526 00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:12,400 "an artist, to perform miracles, and that I wanted to work and couldn't." 527 00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:20,120 "If I see a man putting a bivouac up beautifully, 528 00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,800 "I want to do it myself. 529 00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:27,120 "And when I read of Christ raising the dead, 530 00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:30,160 "I want to raise the dead myself." 531 00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:56,160 The one of the picnic where Patricia is there - 532 00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,280 does that still make you... Do you get cross? 533 00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,480 Well, I... 534 00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:05,920 ..I've sort of dealt with it. 535 00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:10,880 Erm... Obviously, when people bring that time up, 536 00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:13,720 it's uncomfortable. 537 00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:20,160 Because... More because of me than because of Patricia. 538 00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,960 Because of how I felt about her 539 00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:30,640 and the fact that I think 540 00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:33,920 she's the only person in my life I've hated. 541 00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:38,760 And I guess it was partly jealousy. 542 00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:47,400 And I think I must have realised quite early on that... 543 00:51:52,240 --> 00:51:54,280 ..she was taking my dad away. 544 00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:30,080 There is in the copyright a clause 545 00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,680 that you can pretty much reproduce anything, 546 00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:36,600 but you cannot reproduce the double nude. 547 00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:38,120 Shirin can't look at it. 548 00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:45,400 And the pain for Shirin has been immense and total, it's complete. 549 00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:52,040 Recently, she's softening on it 550 00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:55,680 because of, I've put conversations to her, saying, you know, 551 00:52:55,680 --> 00:53:00,720 in time, people will be able to see this picture more, so... 552 00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,320 Mum can look at the picture. Shirin can't. 553 00:53:06,720 --> 00:53:10,600 For Shirin, I don't know whether it's difficult to 554 00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:15,320 look at your pretty much fully... full frontal naked father, 555 00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:17,560 or whether it is Patricia. 556 00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,920 And it's just the fact that there is the woman - 557 00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:25,400 there are other pictures with her in but this one's pretty brutal 558 00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,360 for a daughter to cope with, for a woman to cope with, 559 00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:30,080 for an old lady to cope with. 560 00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:33,240 So, it's bloody painful. 561 00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:16,000 Christ fell asleep and when he woke in the morning, he said, 562 00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,080 "I will arise now and go to my father." 563 00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:24,320 And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness. 564 00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:28,800 For wheresover the carcass is, 565 00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:31,400 there will the eagles be gathered together. 566 00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:37,480 How often would I have gathered the children together, 567 00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,240 even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings. 568 00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:45,840 And Jesus said unto him, "The foxes have holes and the birds 569 00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:47,520 "of the air have nests 570 00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,200 "but the Son of Man hath not where to lay his head." 571 00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:56,200 And when he sent them away, he departed into a mountain to pray. 572 00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:02,560 He said those paintings were painted 573 00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:05,000 at a very difficult time for him. When was that? 574 00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:09,680 Well, it was after his second marriage had broken up. 575 00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:13,560 And... 576 00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:20,000 You know, he was very courageous. 577 00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:25,320 But he... 578 00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:30,360 He just got on with the job and did more paintings, and of course 579 00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:35,120 the Christ in the Wilderness series came out of that time too. 580 00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:41,680 And some of those paintings - fantastic, like The Scorpion... 581 00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:44,200 That's amazing. 582 00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:51,720 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions 583 00:55:51,720 --> 00:55:54,560 and over all the power of the enemy, 584 00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:56,800 and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 585 00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:03,120 Then why take ye thought for raiment? 586 00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:06,000 Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow. 587 00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:10,040 They toil not, neither do they spin, and yet I say unto you that 588 00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:13,880 even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 589 00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:18,200 This kneeling position was a memory of seeing my baby Shirin 590 00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:20,480 looking down into the long grass. 591 00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:25,240 This picture of the... 592 00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:34,000 ..Christ in the Wilderness, and it's The Scorpion. 593 00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:40,520 The colours are very muted. 594 00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:47,320 The colour of his robe and the rocks around and the sand beyond that, 595 00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:54,040 they're just the same, the same colour. 596 00:56:55,960 --> 00:57:00,600 He is one, he's absolutely one with nature. 597 00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:08,040 But he's got this little scorpion in his hand 598 00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:12,680 and although it says, "You should take up scorpions and snakes 599 00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:16,640 "and any deadly thing, they will not harm you," 600 00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:20,800 what he's really doing is looking at this scorpion 601 00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:25,840 with great attention and great affection, you know, being... 602 00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:32,960 In the looking at nature, that time, he's... 603 00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:38,800 He's looking at the creation, 604 00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:43,840 and he had a big part in that, so, you know, 605 00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:48,960 the scorpion is one of his creations and he's jolly interested in it. 606 00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:52,560 It's so loving. 607 00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:58,120 You know, and also, though I don't really... 608 00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:01,600 I'm not particularly interested in the... 609 00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:07,800 ..you know, astrology, 610 00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:11,920 I am under the sign of Scorpio, 611 00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:13,320 and... 612 00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:19,640 ..I think I can sort of put myself into it 613 00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:25,480 and feel that he's looking at me with kindness. 614 00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:30,480 Sort of, "I'll give you another chance, old girl." 615 00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:38,960 That is my Uncle Will. 616 00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:43,320 He was the oldest brother in a family of about eight children, 617 00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:48,320 Spencer children, and very much sort of revered by the younger members, 618 00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:53,320 and Daddy and I visited him in Switzerland. 619 00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:57,160 On this occasion, he had been ill, 620 00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:02,200 so he was in bed, and Daddy sat on one side and I sat on the other 621 00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:04,480 and we drew him, 622 00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:08,360 and Daddy said he thought my drawings were better than his. 623 00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:13,640 I think, actually, on this occasion, my drawing WAS better than his. 624 00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:16,400 It was more sympathetic, somehow. 625 01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:22,920 And then I came back from the Slade one day, 626 01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:28,000 I'd just started at the Slade, from Wimbledon Art School, 627 01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:34,880 And she looked very serious, 628 01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:39,880 so I dashed out of the house, and I ran and ran and ran and ran and ran, 629 01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:45,360 all the way up a steep slope leading to New End Hospital, 630 01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:54,240 and I realised that Mummy had died, 631 01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:57,120 and I let out a great big howl 632 01:00:57,120 --> 01:01:00,840 that reverberated all around that bit of the hospital. 633 01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:31,600 They're both very brave woman 634 01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:34,800 because they've come through it and they've coped, 635 01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:38,520 and I've see it when I was younger. I've seen Mum's depression. 636 01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:41,400 I've come home from boarding school for the weekend 637 01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:44,160 and Mum's in her pyjamas under her clothes 638 01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:46,480 because she couldn't be bothered to get dressed properly 639 01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:48,120 and she's met me off the bus. 640 01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:50,720 And when she was depressed in London, I didn't know where 641 01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:53,120 home was going to be till we got there and it's a bedsit 642 01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:57,160 in Sutherland Road near the Harrow Road, off Maida Vale. 643 01:01:57,160 --> 01:01:58,680 And... 644 01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:02,400 ..I've had to just lump it and get on with my day, weekend, 645 01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:06,000 go back to boarding school. Um... 646 01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:09,080 And Shirin at that time was in Africa. 647 01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:11,600 I don't know whether Shirin went to Africa... 648 01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:16,240 I don't know the motive but I think a lot of the motive is, 649 01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:21,240 the safest place to be is as far away as possible from this...family. 650 01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:31,920 And how long had you suffered from depression? 651 01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:34,080 15 years or so. 652 01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:35,760 Maybe even more. 653 01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:40,840 I did a strange thing called the Landmark Forum. 654 01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:44,680 Tough, very tough, and... 655 01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:50,200 You have to do lots of different things, and at the end, I... 656 01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:54,440 You have to get up on the platform and say who you are. 657 01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:59,400 I said, "Who I am is the possibility of daring, joy and love, 658 01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:01,720 "and I give up being the victim." 659 01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:05,240 And when I said that, I was freed of the depression! 660 01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:09,480 But it was because I said it publicly that I was freed. 661 01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:12,560 Had I said it in here, I wouldn't have been freed. 662 01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:19,240 I did go to the Forum, 663 01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:23,760 which Unity had been to, and... 664 01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:27,960 And that's when she said, "I forgive you," 665 01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:30,800 and I wasn't quite sure in particular what things 666 01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:33,560 she was forgiving or just general forgiveness, 667 01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:36,680 but that was fine, and... 668 01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:44,400 And I thought, "Oh, well, perhaps she no longer wants to reject me." 669 01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:48,080 Reject you? 670 01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:50,720 Reject you?! Yes. 671 01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,000 Since when? Every... 672 01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:57,160 Well, I did feel rejected, obviously. Oh, well. Oh, right. 673 01:03:57,160 --> 01:03:58,840 Because I couldn't... 674 01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:03,840 Because I didn't have the nous to understand what was going on. 675 01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:07,200 I think you understood very well. 676 01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:10,520 Sorry? I think you understood very well. No, I did not. 677 01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:13,240 I know you deny it, Shirin, but I think you did. 678 01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:02,400 At some point fairly recently, I think I realised that... 679 01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:10,680 ..it was important to forgive... forgive her, and that also, 680 01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:16,240 if I didn't forgive her, I wouldn't be forgiven. 681 01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:35,080 And hope is nothing flimsy-whimsy at all. 682 01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:39,840 Hope is strong and kind 683 01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:44,880 and I hate to disagree with the great poet who wrote, 684 01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:50,080 "Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold..." 685 01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:56,920 I personally believe in a strong centre. 686 01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:00,280 A warm, kind... 687 01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:03,960 ..no-nonsense centre. 688 01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:10,640 I do believe that, and I've had nearly 91 years' experience 689 01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:15,080 and I do want to thank you all for coming. 690 01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:17,800 It's just lovely to see you 691 01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:22,680 and now I'm all ready to say hello to everybody. 692 01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:24,200 LAUGHTER 693 01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:28,120 And you're wonderful. And John has been fantastic. 694 01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:30,560 I never thought this day... 695 01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:33,000 Well, I mean, talk about hope... 696 01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:34,600 LAUGHTER 697 01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:37,480 ..but I always HOPED it might come, 698 01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:39,960 and it has come. 699 01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:45,040 And I can't say what it means to me, 700 01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:47,040 and to Unity. 701 01:07:57,280 --> 01:07:58,840 When Daddy... 702 01:07:59,960 --> 01:08:04,800 ..when his coffin was in Holy Trinity Church, 703 01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:09,840 it was there because the cremation was going to be the next day 704 01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:14,200 and the day after that was going to be the funeral... 705 01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:18,440 I'm cold! ..and they were rehearsing a nativity play... I'm cold! 706 01:08:18,440 --> 01:08:21,040 And it was children, 707 01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:25,720 and there were little children dressed as angels, 708 01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:30,680 and one adorable little angel, plump and confident, 709 01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:37,200 and she put her elbow on the coffin. 710 01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:40,160 She was just doing this. 711 01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:42,200 You don't mind, Mummy? 712 01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:45,200 She was just doing this, and... 713 01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:52,320 ..I thought how Daddy would have loved to draw that. 714 01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:56,160 There was something brilliant about it. 715 01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:01,480 That's what I wanted to say. 716 01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:23,640 "Writing this letter has been strange. 717 01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:27,320 "I feel as though I am writing to people in general 718 01:09:27,320 --> 01:09:29,960 "rather than to you specifically. 719 01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:34,960 "At the same time, the thought of writing a personal letter to you 720 01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:37,640 "feels almost impossible, 721 01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:41,240 "perhaps because I felt so much grief when you died. 722 01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:48,600 "This lasted a long time in various ways. 723 01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:51,680 "I'm so glad that's far in the past. 724 01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:57,760 "And maybe getting too close would feel unwise... 725 01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:04,720 "..but my love for you, Daddy, is deep and enduring for always, 726 01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:07,560 "as is my love for Mummy. 727 01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:12,520 "If someone told me you were both at the bottom of my road now, 728 01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:17,560 "I would run like the wind to you both and envelop you in my arms 729 01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:19,520 "and hug you and kiss you. 730 01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:25,880 "All I can do now is say goodbye, God be with you, 731 01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:30,600 "and to give lots and lots of love to Mummy and to you 732 01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:33,600 "and to send you your grandson's love... 733 01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:39,000 "..even though he does not know I'm sending it to you. 734 01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:44,040 "This is getting like the ending of some of Beethoven's works, 735 01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:58,640 MUSIC: Prelude in C Major by Johann Sebastian Bach 736 01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:30,200 It's very strange having Unity in a different place. 737 01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:36,720 What was the last 18 months like? 738 01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:39,480 Wonderful. 739 01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:42,440 Difficult. 740 01:13:42,440 --> 01:13:45,000 At times, sad. 741 01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:48,720 At times, very happy. 742 01:13:50,320 --> 01:13:55,320 But I really felt there's only one Unity and... 743 01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:02,720 ..she does it well. But... 744 01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:08,800 I say she wasn't too bad, 745 01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:13,840 and when I say something like that, it just is... 746 01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:18,440 .."I love you, dear." And... 747 01:14:21,400 --> 01:14:24,520 And one knows what I really mean.